Casual Temple

TRANSCRIPT

(Transcript is auto-generated; errors are unintentional.)

00:00:07 Merrily This is the Casual Temple podcast. 00:00:08 Merrily And you are listening to episode #1 and I'm your host. Merrily Duffy. My mission with the Casual Temple podcast is to introduce the world to different ways of developing a relationship with spirit. We will hear from everyday. 00:00:20 Merrily People about their magical practices, psychic phenomena, energy healing as well as hear about the amazing, mystical and paranormal experiences this week. My guest is Emma Devan, who joins the podcast to talk about her spiritual journey as well as her experience as a psychic and healing instructor here in Seattle. 00:00:37 Merrily We also get into discussing remote viewing and limited states. 00:00:42 Merrily Thank you all for joining us here at Casual Temple. Today's guest is Emma Devan. Emma is a psychic and healing instructor here in Seattle, WA. Emma, thank you for being my first guest and willing to talk about your relationship with Spirit. 00:00:57 Emma Well, thank you for having me. I'm. 00:00:58 Emma Happy to be here. 00:01:00 Merrily OK. Thank you. So I guess just to kind of get the ball rolling and and you know, I know a little bit about sort of what your spiritual path has looked like and I know you've been interested in a lot of different things and have tried a lot of different things. 00:01:16 Merrily And but what was sort of like either your first? 00:01:21 Merrily Spiritual event. 00:01:23 Merrily Or modality that you learned wherever. 00:01:26 Merrily You want to start. 00:01:28 Emma We have a great question. You know, when you're asked that question, there is one thing that often pops into my mind when I first. 00:01:36 Emma Think I felt some connection to something greater and I knew some. 00:01:41 Emma Thing that the average child wouldn't know, and I was about 8 years old, and that's a guess. Somewhere around then. And I remember being at home and just understanding that the earth was just this little tiny Organism inside of something much larger and that there are these. 00:01:59 Emma Much larger beings. I didn't know what they were. It's just a child. But I could. I could feel it. I knew it was true. 00:02:07 Emma They're these much larger beings that sort of peer down at the Earth the way a han might like, look into a through a microscope at microscopic organisms. And I knew that. And I've always just known and felt things in various ways in various degrees throughout. 00:02:27 Emma All of my life up until the present, but. 00:02:29 Emma When you ask the question. 00:02:30 Emma You know what did I first hit with or? 00:02:31 Emma What did I first? 00:02:32 Emma Ping with when I was probably around 14 years old, I stbled upon the writings of Edgar Casey. 00:02:38 Right. 00:02:40 Emma And that was really what got the ball rolling for me, and I didn't know what it was that clicked with me, but I could feel that he was on to something. And from there the the rest is history. I just kept going and finding and and and discovering more and more and what ultimately really pinged. 00:03:00 Emma I mean, was the Seth material by Jane Roberts? 00:03:04 Merrily Yeah. So some channeling and the sleeping profit, those are two good, good places to start. 00:03:12 Merrily . 00:03:15 Merrily So what would you say was your? 00:03:19 Merrily Your own sort of, from kicking off from Edgar Casey and the Seth material. Like, how did you go about this like? 00:03:28 Merrily Exploring for yourself so I know that you're very much into actually doing the practice or doing practices. 00:03:33 Emma Right. 00:03:35 Emma Yeah, yeah, that's a really great question because in a way, I would think that I'm somewhat of a late bloomer to the actual practice. I was always heavily concentrated on the theory early in my life, early through my 20s and my 30s living life, doing what you're supposed to do out in the world. 00:03:52 Emma But about 1213 years ago, I realized that I. 00:03:59 Emma For all of the theoretical study and all of the efforts in that way, I really wasn't making it work for me, and that's when I got really busy and said, OK, I need to go outside of what I've already learned and I stbled upon Sonia Choquette, who's a well known. Yeah, well known. And it was her work that was more the practical. 00:04:19 Emma Application side and once I got started with that she used to travel and teach and once I got started with her program of really. 00:04:28 Emma Accessing in a practical, effective way, the inner knowledge that you had to make it work for you. Then it blew wide open. 00:04:36 Emma And then it was just sorting through and doing a lot of the the the self work and and self exploration and the expansion of understanding and ability. Once the ball got rolling it just exponentially kicked off. 00:04:54 Merrily Would you say that because I'm sort of familiar with Sonia Choquette as well, would you say that the actual practicality of you like focusing on something and it showing up? Was that where you were like? 00:05:08 Emma Oh, that's the start. 00:05:08 Merrily Yeah, it was actually. 00:05:09 Emma More about answering questions and coming to the understanding. 00:05:14 Emma Of what was creating things to. 00:05:16 Emma Be the way they were. 00:05:17 Emma So it was less about oh. 00:05:20 Emma Trying to create new experiences in my life, but to actually really understand what was going on underneath and to be able to. 00:05:29 Emma Dialogue and access. You know the inner self, inner consciousness or greater consciousness and get some really useful answers. So it was like, well, this can't just be just theoretical study. 00:05:42 Emma Which I can quote, you know no end of tomorrow. But what do. What do you actually do with all that knowledge? And that was really, really what got that started for me. And having real world meaningful practical situations really is what helped grow. 00:06:02 Merrily But I guess for you, so if you had Sonia and then let's see. OK, so you're three teachers at this point that I've heard is like Sonya and then Edgar Casey and the Seth material. So from there, with all the stuff that you've discovered in your. 00:06:22 Merrily In your past. 00:06:24 Merrily Like what drove you to kind of more into sort of the healing space that you're kind of in now? Because I know you've talked a little bit about that before. 00:06:34 Emma Yeah, it was actually a sudden downturn in my own health. And and I had a period for about two or three years where my own health just imploded, that I began to develop all kinds of difficulties and showed symptoms that. 00:06:50 Emma Of various ailments, some of which run in the family, and because I was so well established and so took to heart the principles and the self material of you, create your own reality. It's not you know that that there's there's something about this that you do have command over. I really took that to heart and I really dug. 00:07:10 Emma Very deep. 00:07:11 Emma And discovered what was really, truly going on that was causing a variety of issues and ailments. Did the belief work? Did the emotional sorting did actually develop a new way of or a new way to me, at least, of actually healing the body and and coming to well? 00:07:31 Emma Being and solving things. 00:07:33 Emma And because I did that one, it affirm that yes. 00:07:37 Emma You can do it. 00:07:39 Emma Two it did did. 00:07:40 Emma Reveal just how much your beliefs and your emotions and and all of the inner psyche and the inner consciousness really do inform the body and affect the body. And from there it became. 00:07:56 Emma About two and a half, three years of just pulling myself out of what was a real serious decline in health, very serious decline. I was losing my eyesight, arthritis systems, I was showing symptoms of significant deterioration. And because I was successful with that. 00:08:16 Emma I eventually hold that process to myself and a friend of mine came to me, and this was some years ago and she was having some jaw. 00:08:27 Emma Pain and her doctor had recommended to her that she go get surgery. I said wait, time out now she's not. 00:08:37 Emma She's not informed like some of your listeners might be. She's more in the average camp of deal with things in. 00:08:43 Emma A different way and I. 00:08:45 Emma Said, well, stop here before you do it. Let's try something. Doesn't cost anything. Let's try something. And I taught her some of the techniques that I had figured out for myself. 00:08:55 Emma And she was good, you know. Good, good friends. She went along. Maybe she just hored me, but she did it. She really took a look at the beliefs and the emotions and the and the things that were going on. 00:09:05 Emma For her, for. 00:09:05 Emma Her life and was able to make a connection with the pain that she was. 00:09:09 Emma Experiencing in her. 00:09:10 Emma Jaw and it took about two or three months for her to. 00:09:14 Emma Work through it. 00:09:15 Emma But she was able to. 00:09:16 Emma To not have the surgery and to clear up the issue and she was successful with it. And that taught me that that is to. 00:09:24 Emma It it it is teachable and that's really where my focus and my preferences now in doing healing work with individuals is to not make it a passive receiving experience only for them. 00:09:37 Emma But to make it also educational. 00:09:39 Emma To give them the. 00:09:40 Emma Tools so that they can go home and do their own self work for their own well-being. 00:09:48 Merrily Hmm. Yeah, I definitely think that you're definitely ahead of a lot of people because I I think that's where the direction is going generally now. Yeah because like. 00:10:00 Merrily Because like you're right, I believe too, that people. 00:10:04 Merrily They're like the best, the best person to really handle their own issues like they can be taught the methods. But yeah, I agree with that. 00:10:11 Emma Yeah. Let's see. 00:10:16 Merrily Gosh, I had a question. 00:10:18 Merrily Regarding the. 00:10:22 Merrily I guess I already sort of answered it but anyways so. 00:10:27 Merrily With these healing modalities that you've sort of learned, oh, here's my question. So your healing modalities, what do you think about? Because I I this is something I've been. 00:10:41 Merrily Sort of thinking about on my own but. 00:10:45 Merrily So the the material world medicine of like going to a doctor and then sort of the energetic piece that we're kind of talking about sort of the underlying thing, how do you think those work together if they do? 00:11:00 Merrily Or how do you think? 00:11:03 Merrily That goes together. 00:11:04 Emma Yeah, yeah, it's. I do think that that is in in fluctuation and will only become more. 00:11:11 Emma Fluid, inflexible as different trends take over different values and different preferences take over, and as those who are knowledgeable and skilled and effective in approaching health and well-being and promoting well-being through other methods than the allopathic system. 00:11:31 Emma Or Western medicine using that term very broadly. 00:11:34 Emma That they may or may. 00:11:35 Emma Not work together. I I find tremendous respect for allopathic medicine when it comes to piercing back together broken. 00:11:42 Emma Bodies. So if you break a. 00:11:44 For heaven's. 00:11:45 Emma Sakes, go get it fixed. But you can still work with yourself at an energetic level or the, you know, the inner energetic flow of the body to promote that healing quite a bit faster. Where I find that there is a more probable divergences between allopathic and what we'll just call energy. 00:12:04 Emma Media Center energy healing has more to do with long standing, repeating patterns and issues of difficulty and from the camp that I come from that those are pretty much universally rooted in. 00:12:19 Emma Ideas, attitudes, emotions of the individual, and in some cases in misusage. So if there's a constant strain on a part of the body, then. 00:12:32 Emma There can be. 00:12:33 Emma Overuse or misuse or coordination issues, and in that case things like physical therapy. 00:12:39 Emma I think can work very. 00:12:40 Emma Beautifully, but I've seen it happen many times and I've experienced person this personally myself, where once you. 00:12:47 Emma Find the actual core issue. Literally the physical expression and the physical expression of the issue evaporates within days, and I'm talking about things you. 00:12:57 Emma May have had for years. 00:12:59 Emma And it sounds miraculous, but it's happened to me, and I know that it's happened to others. 00:13:03 Emma So it is possible it's just about. 00:13:06 Emma Continuing to learn because it is a new. 00:13:09 Emma I think a developing field it's an emerging field, so we're all still learning and improving and just think of where it will be in 50 or 100 years. 00:13:21 Merrily So something I was thinking about because I've also, as you have, we've worked with people. What do you think about having either the person not believing or having the belief that whatever you're working with them on will work or not work? 00:13:42 Emma Yeah. So that's. 00:13:44 Emma A great question because that I would say, applies to any modality. So if you look at allopathic medicine and what they're or or any, whether I, I'm a firm believer in traditional Chinese medicine, for example, I I can recommend that without reservations. And there are other. 00:14:02 Emma Ayurvedic medicine. There's naturopathy. There's so many different ways to approach some. 00:14:07 Emma Thing ultimately. 00:14:09 Emma It's the willingness of the of. 00:14:12 Emma The patient to create that change in themselves that will make that work or not work, but also does it last. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Does it last? And so that's where again, I do think that allopathic medicine is very successful when it comes to mending broken bones and repairing damage and. 00:14:28 Emma Things like that. 00:14:29 Emma Because most people don't want to maintain that. 00:14:32 Emma Most people don't. 00:14:33 Emma Want to maintain a broken? 00:14:34 Emma Bone and they want it to heal, but in surprising cases, if you look, and I'm sure you've probably experienced this in your own practice as well, if you look really closely at what's bothering someone. 00:14:45 Emma Sometimes they don't. 00:14:46 Emma Want to face it right? They may not be ready to do that and in which case, then. 00:14:52 Emma My personal choice then in working with an individual is to not attempt to solve the physical problem, but to pivot over to. Let's solve why you don't want to face this. So it's always about finding what I call that pivot point of what they're ready to do, and it might be I'm just ready to get over my reluctance to deal with this. 00:15:12 Emma And then you just find. 00:15:14 Emma That opening that window of opportunity. 00:15:16 Emma And that's your route in. 00:15:20 Merrily Thank you. That was very eloquently explained. That was very helpful for me to hear that. Let's see. So I know that you have looked at a lot of different modalities and a lot of different spaces. 00:15:35 Merrily , what are more of the more, what are some of the more surprising moments that kind of shaped how you your current practices? 00:15:48 Emma Yeah. So the thing about this because there's sometimes it, what what would surprise one person would not another person would just well, that's just that's just how it works, right. But one of my kind of mind blowing boom moments was has to do with the relationship between. 00:16:08 Emma Physical experience and inner dream life. So I do teach purposeful dreaming and interpretation, which is pretty well substantiated, at least if there's a lot of theory. 00:16:18 Emma In the Seth material. 00:16:19 Emma About the nature of dreams and the purpose of dreams and. 00:16:24 Emma I did connect the dots between information that I received directly from within and my own experience is it doesn't suddenly just blew my mind. One day when I realized that my life is essentially the dream of my inner consciousness, and as you know, I'm sure many of your listeners know or realize this as well. 00:16:43 Emma The your dreams are often symbolic. They have meaning to them. They represent something. They're not just in a fictional story, they have significance to them. 00:16:53 Emma And so then I traced that. 00:16:54 Emma Backwards and realized well my life is something like a symbolic dream to my inner consciousness. Therefore, I can interpret my life as if it were a dream. 00:17:07 Emma And now ohh my. 00:17:08 Emma Goodness, I see things so completely different. I see things so completely differently. 00:17:13 Emma Because I realized that, well, if this. 00:17:15 Emma Were a dream. 00:17:17 Emma I would be looking at. 00:17:18 Emma This event that I'm experiencing and interpreting it as I see the connection, I see the connection. Yeah, I see. 00:17:27 Emma Why it is that I stbled upon broken glass one day, realized that something had been shattered. Now I'm thinking, well, OK, if this wasn't a dream, I would look at this and say what? 00:17:39 Emma Was shattered. 00:17:40 Emma That was broken that. 00:17:41 Emma This is this is a symbol of, but I can do the same thing if I go out into the world and it's like, why is there all this broken glass here? Stop and think about it. It's. 00:17:50 Emma Like I'm having a living. 00:17:52 Emma Dream. So it's almost like. 00:17:56 Emma The opposite end of. 00:17:57 Emma The spectr of a lucid dream, right? Yeah. 00:18:01 Merrily Yeah, that's interesting because. 00:18:05 Merrily I think that is always a struggle, either for. I think it's a struggle for just people who may be haven't had any sort of spiritual experiences, aren't or aren't paying attention to them. Because I would say that if you look for any sort of dream like meaning or symbols just in your regular life, like you'll find them. 00:18:28 Merrily An example would be. 00:18:30 Merrily My sister and I, when we were in the Philippines, we kept seeing, I think on three different occasions these Atlas Moths, which are just enormous. 00:18:38 Merrily And and she was like, Oh my gosh, there's another one. And I was like, that's significant. We shouldn't. We should log that. So that's interesting that you called that out and I think you even sort of mentioned like, what is the significance to you? Like your talk about the shattered glass? Like, what is shattered? 00:18:58 Merrily You know and. 00:18:59 Merrily Kind of like reflect us. 00:19:00 Emma Right. What is shattered? Yeah, absolutely. So. So that is part of the continuing expansion or unfolding of my own understanding is coming to see like the continuous flaw of all of the worlds that we exist in. So we have our physical reality. 00:19:21 Emma We have the. 00:19:21 Emma Dream world that we have, and sometimes you remember, and sometimes you become awake in the dream and then it's somewhat different. You can do things and it's all this kind of interconnected flow with each other and I've. 00:19:34 Emma Come to really understand and really believe that they're not that discrete faith. 00:19:40 Emma Bleed into each other. 00:19:42 Emma All the time, sort of like you might get a message someone might. 00:19:46 Emma Call or text you from there. Way over on another part of the world, but their communication intersects, it comes into and makes itself known. 00:19:55 Emma And where you are. 00:19:56 Emma Same thing happens with all of these different kind of levels of our own experience from the dreaming world out. 00:20:03 Emma To the physical. 00:20:05 Merrily Cool I like. 00:20:06 Merrily That explanation. Thank you. 00:20:10 Merrily , so kind of pivoting a little bit, but not too much. So in your spiritual journey, would you say there were some pitfalls or any sort of? 00:20:23 Merrily Either in han form, meaning there was like a the way I'm thinking of this is like there was a teacher. You were kind of interested in and then you were like no. Or if it was like a circstance like you were in a, like, a particular, let's say, like a meditation. 00:20:41 Merrily Class but that didn't work out either, yeah. 00:20:44 Merrily And any sort of advice? 00:20:47 Merrily About any of those situations that you may have. 00:20:50 Emma I do. It's a. It's a wonderful thing to bring this up because it's it really is worth understanding. 00:20:57 Emma That in the. 00:20:59 Emma Global culture that we have. 00:21:02 Emma Today that this is all a churning pot of various influences in terms of understanding the inner realities or or the spiritual world, or your own, your own psycho spiritual physical being. It's still a work in progress. And right now my observation is. 00:21:23 Emma Is that there's a lot. 00:21:26 Emma Tributaries from all of these different cultures that are kind of getting mishmashed together. And so it's a real hodgepodge, at least in in I think in the United States of a mixture where you might get this and you might get that and you might get something else and you don't know. 00:21:42 Emma What you're going to? 00:21:43 Emma Get so a pitfall and I think it's a really important. 00:21:46 Emma To bring up is that when it comes to seeking learning and education or training experience with a teacher, it's can. 00:21:56 Emma Be hitting this, frankly. 00:21:58 It can be. 00:21:58 Emma Really hit and miss and to recommend that take. 00:22:02 Emma Everything with a. 00:22:03 Emma Grain of salt, but really look around if you're wanting to develop. 00:22:07 Emma Certain skills, abilities, or practice things with a cohort with colleague. 00:22:14 Emma Always be aware that what you're sharing is not necessarily the whole story, and that there can be another way. And if a student or a learner comes into a program, whether it's a class or workshop, a a very long, intensive, a week long retreat or whatever, always trust yourself. 00:22:34 Emma To know when it doesn't feel right for you, you know this doesn't feel right for me. I I don't click with this. It doesn't resonate with me and be willing to just set that aside and trust your own inner self to say, is there another way that I can do this? So I do find that the educational side of it is actually very hit and miss. 00:22:54 Emma And then when it comes to actually going deep with the work and I consider psychic learning. 00:23:02 Emma Really just to be the cultivation of our own native abilities and we all. 00:23:07 Emma Have that. 00:23:07 Emma But we're all at very different stages of it. Some people are just getting started. Some people haven't started some people. 00:23:13 Emma Are you know? 00:23:14 Emma World class medis who can do amazing things to really change the world by what they. 00:23:21 Emma What they can do? 00:23:23 Emma But I have found that. 00:23:27 Emma There's no distinction between, you know, the effects of doing psychic development on what it means to you as a spiritual being and. 00:23:38 Emma What it means to? 00:23:39 Emma As emotional being and what it means to you as a physical being and what it means to you. 00:23:42 Emma In a more material sense. 00:23:44 Emma So when you. 00:23:45 Emma Change one thing. 00:23:47 Emma It can disrupt. 00:23:48 Emma And change a whole lot else too and. 00:23:52 Emma Just be aware. 00:23:53 Emma Of that and and prepared for that, that the discoveries that you might make a person might make in one area can have a domino effect, that it can affect them in in many new ways and pitfall. 00:24:07 Emma This is also that if you do not have a really good understanding about some of the things that you might experience. 00:24:17 People can feel very. 00:24:18 Emma Insecure with it. 00:24:19 MM. 00:24:20 Emma Yeah, I had a I had a international student from Chile who had to reach out to me because she was feeling very distressed and very discouraged and didn't understand what was happening to her. She was getting all of this information and having all of these experiences, and because she didn't have already a good foundation, whether it was in theory or practice. 00:24:41 Emma Her guidance? She was, but she found it very strange and she just didn't know what. 00:24:45 Emma To do didn't trust. 00:24:46 Emma It. And so she reached out, fortunately, and and and was able to chat with people who feel were more experienced. 00:24:54 Emma But that that framework of reference to understand what's happening to you and to know that that's OK if you start to receive more information really important and not everyone has that. 00:25:08 Merrily How would you? Yeah, I do agree with that for sure. How would you say? Because what was coming up when you were talking was OK. So I need to trust my own guidance. Like, say, if I'm working with a teacher or a particular class or or whatnot. 00:25:22 Merrily And take the things I need and. 00:25:24 Merrily You know, throw everything else out so. 00:25:26 Merrily But what if? 00:25:27 Merrily You don't have that really good connection with yourself and you just are like, I don't know what to think and you get confused. Like what? How would you? 00:25:36 Merrily Sort through that. 00:25:37 Emma Yeah, tough call because tough question because ultimately I do think that there is a a degree of readiness that a person may or may not have. 00:25:47 Emma And also that psychic expansion or psychic development of inner, I think in some cases this student maybe is rushed a little bit into doing work with other people or practice work or mediship when they don't have themselves figured out first and so. 00:26:08 Emma For any student who goes into and feels like this isn't right for me, I. 00:26:12 Emma Don't know. I don't trust. 00:26:13 Emma This something feels really off. There aren't. 00:26:16 Emma Too many choices. I think the person has other than to say I'm going to leave step back. 00:26:22 Emma And maybe search for something. 00:26:24 Emma Print I do personally recommend for anyone who's truly a novice who's really never learned either theory or technique to get a good foundation in some kind of. 00:26:37 Emma Theory get a. 00:26:38 Emma Good foundation, whether you want to study shamanic practice or. 00:26:44 Emma I'm all about the Seth material, or if you want to study the. 00:26:49 Emma Kabbalah. Or maybe you like. 00:26:51 Emma Some of the eastern traditions or what? 00:26:54 Emma Have you get some kind of? 00:26:55 Emma Grounding or some sort of foundation and understanding what you're doing and then. 00:27:04 Emma Do more of the development practice work after you feel like you're comfortable with the theoretical system upon which it's based? So some people love shamanic practice and it's absolutely the right thing for them to do, but it's based on a very particular kind of set of ideas, you know. 00:27:24 Emma Your nature and guides and and all of these other things, but not every not every system uses that. There are others. So find the find the system that feels right for you and then just go with it as far as you can or what far. 00:27:39 Emma As what you. 00:27:39 Emma Feels right. OK. 00:27:42 Merrily Read answer. 00:27:44 Merrily So I guess. 00:27:47 Merrily For yourself, this is, I know we talked about sort of your energy healing and modalities and your teaching, so. 00:27:55 Merrily And how do you consider or how did you understand that you had psychic abilities or psychic powers? Or do you even consider that you have those things or have developed them? 00:28:11 Emma Well, because they've been at this for such a teenager, I've never considered to be anything other than this is what's natural and that everyone does this. But. 00:28:20 Emma The way I teach. 00:28:21 Emma Psychic development or teach anything in the general field is that psychic development is ultimately learning to do consciously with intent. 00:28:31 Emma Which you are already doing subconsciously. 00:28:34 Emma Which are already doing instinctively. So for example, everyone astral projects at night, whether they remember it or not, but there's a smaller percentage of people who have learned to do that consciously with intent, and everybody picks up information from each other all the time. But it's another level. 00:28:54 Emma To learn to do that with conscious intent that you can. 00:28:57 Emma Meet a stranger. 00:28:59 Emma Sit there for a moment and say, well, I can see that you're you're you're contemplating changing your career and you're wanting to move to another city and they're like, whoa, yeah, how? 00:29:09 Emma Did you? 00:29:10 Emma Know that. 00:29:12 Emma There's a technique to that. There's a skill to do that, so ultimately learning to do with intent consciously. 00:29:19 Emma What we're already doing subconsciously is really what we're talking about. In my opinion, that is that that's how that is. 00:29:25 Emma And then for me. 00:29:29 Emma Once I got to the point where I started to get affirmation of things that I knew that. 00:29:37 Emma You couldn't theoretically know. 00:29:39 Emma You know where I received information of. 00:29:42 Emma Well, that's going to happen. 00:29:44 Emma Well, like you. 00:29:45 Emma Know that's predicting the future, but I got the. 00:29:48 Emma Heads up information about that first. 00:29:51 Emma And then when? 00:29:52 Emma I actually started really getting effective change and results. 00:29:57 Emma And then. 00:30:00 Emma Realizing that after I got to the level of what I think is reasonable competence, I won't say mastery. I'll never say mastery because I don't think that there's ever a point where you have nothing further to learn but talking tents and being able to do the things for myself. Then the next logical step is, well, how do I direct that towards another? 00:30:21 Emma Where this isn't just me, you know, reading myself in my own future and solving my own health issues. But now I'm directing those abilities to work with another person. 00:30:32 Emma And it was just that one moment of. 00:30:35 Merrily I got it. 00:30:36 You know. 00:30:37 Emma Like, well, I don't know. 00:30:39 Emma You know very, Gee, I don't know. Well, she I'm gonna like. Well, I think I picked up the, you know, your used to, you know. 00:30:49 Emma Work on a sailboat and just like. 00:30:51 Well, yes I did. 00:30:53 Merrily Wow it. 00:30:54 Emma Works. You know, it was that it was that it was that kind of a thing. So there was a real transition there. And I think when it comes to talking about psychic development or psychic work, it's usually that tipping point when a person is working with another person, they do not know that you call yourself a psychic. But I would say that everyone is actually. 00:31:14 Emma Already doing that to at least some degree, yeah. 00:31:20 Merrily Yeah, I do think that that's where it's more surprising is when there's somebody that you have don't know anything about their life and then you're picking up stuff. 00:31:27 Emma Total stranger never seen this person before. You sit down. You do. 00:31:31 Emma Particular process and they're wide eyed. 00:31:37 Emma Or various things happen right, which I know. 00:31:40 Merrily And yeah. 00:31:40 Emma You know. 00:31:43 Merrily But it's always it always shocks me every time. It's just like, wow. OK, I guess it's real. 00:31:45 Emma Yeah, yeah. 00:31:49 Merrily . 00:31:51 Merrily So I guess. 00:31:52 Merrily Gosh, there was some. There's a couple of things that you had said, but one of the things was you had talked about like having people to kind of around you that are sort of doing like like a cohort or just people around that are sort of doing the same practice because I'll just say for. 00:32:08 Merrily My own situation, like I was going. 00:32:11 Merrily Where I am still in involved in doing sort of the Western ceremonial magic. A lot of that it's very I. I like that it's very solitary. However, the thing I kept running into cause I was like I did have like a little, I still do have a little community of other practitioners. 00:32:28 Merrily But man, I was just having all these like, weird, mystical things happening like during meditation or whatever. And I'm like, hey, this is happening. Anybody else, you know, and either it wasn't happening or they felt weird about sharing it. And so, yeah. So I was like, OK. 00:32:46 Merrily Well I need. 00:32:48 Merrily To figure this out with a different group of people because they're not willing to talk about it or whatever, I don't know exactly what's going on, but I will say when I do find or have found other people that are, you know, either exploring that the psychic thing or the mystical side, it has been. 00:33:06 Merrily So we're leaving so I can just validate what you were kind of talking about in that. 00:33:10 Emma Yeah. And, you know, I will. 00:33:12 Emma Say I find that to be one of. 00:33:13 Emma The surprising joys that. 00:33:15 Emma Has come out for me working in the and the teaching and the organizing and more the leadership. 00:33:20 Emma Capacity in this. 00:33:21 Emma Field where I have a group of individuals who come together and I give them. 00:33:26 Emma Exercises that give them meaningful things to. 00:33:28 Emma Do and then say. 00:33:30 Emma Well, what did you find? What did you find and every time? 00:33:35 Emma They come back with these things that it shows the diverse array of results that an individual can get from doing the same exercise. 00:33:44 Emma With the same intention. 00:33:46 Emma And it really has been revelatory to have people do exactly what. 00:33:51 Emma You're talking about to share. 00:33:52 Emma Because it does show that. 00:33:55 Emma People do have very different experiences even when they attempt the same practice, and so it's not. 00:34:01 Emma About having a particular experience in my opinion, but rather the authentic experience that is to you, and it'd be quite marvelous and quite astonishing what people experience on a particular type of exercise or practice but delightful. 00:34:18 Merrily Yeah. Is there one that an experience that somebody either share one of your students shared with you that you feel led to share? 00:34:29 Merrily Or like that. 00:34:29 Emma Yeah, absolutely. So I had a a group going and I give them basically what would be almost like a low level channeling exercises. 00:34:37 Emma To do where? 00:34:38 Emma I I have them set aside anything that they think that they. 00:34:41 Emma Know and do what they call. 00:34:43 Emma An original inquiry, which it's essentially essentially, it's basically going directly into kind of the. 00:34:50 Emma Collective knowledge of. 00:34:51 Emma All and bringing back information about something that you would not necessarily have any preconceived notion that that it would, that would happen and. 00:35:05 Emma I I sent a couple of times, a couple of things come to mind. One and where I. 00:35:08 Emma Sent the group off and said get. 00:35:10 Emma A preview of what? 00:35:11 Emma What comes? 00:35:12 Emma Next, once you're done with your life on Earth. 00:35:16 Emma And you move on to whatever it. 00:35:17 Emma Is that we? 00:35:17 Emma Move on to, which is very debatable as to what that is. 00:35:21 Emma I don't think. 00:35:21 Emma There's any one answer? I think there's many. 00:35:23 Emma Different things go take a peek. 00:35:25 Emma Go see what you. 00:35:26 Emma Find and it was fascinating what people came. 00:35:29 Emma Back with you. 00:35:30 Emma Know we had one person who who came. 00:35:33 Emma Back with like, well, it's like. 00:35:34 Emma Living in two dimensions at the same time. 00:35:38 Emma Like he's getting. 00:35:38 Emma This information, and he's having this, this sensory experience. It's a sort of like an intro level to like a projection of consciousness. 00:35:47 Emma You send a bit of your mind off and. 00:35:50 Emma He and he goes over and it's like, well this it's literally like you're you're aware of being in two different things at in the same. 00:35:56 Emma Same level he is that that was one thing that he had there and others have gone and come back with, you know, like changes in and revisiting the earth and and seeing it like in a transparent way. It's like you. 00:36:13 Emma You don't see. 00:36:14 Emma The earth when you move on as like this. 00:36:16 Emma This physical realm, it's almost like it's. 00:36:19 Emma Part of like. 00:36:20 Emma A flow of action. 00:36:22 Emma And they were coming back with stuff that I'd never had heard of or never thought of, you know, and that was what was. 00:36:28 Emma Fun about it. 00:36:29 Emma And and realized well, there's probably some truth to. 00:36:32 Emma There and is there a little? 00:36:34 Emma Bit of creativity and invention. 00:36:35 Emma There's probably a little. 00:36:36 Emma Bit of that there too, but it's fascinating that what people can come back with. 00:36:42 Emma When they are, you know, really willing to just listen. Just have that question, have that intention and just listen or sense what comes to you without trying to make anything up. Amazing, amazing results. 00:37:00 Merrily So quick question on that, because I know the whole because you mentioned about making it up and then something coming to you, how? 00:37:09 Merrily Do you? 00:37:10 Merrily How do you? 00:37:11 Merrily Know which is which. 00:37:13 Emma I guess also very great question and and I I think that to some extent there's a bit of a convolution here because once you imagine something I. 00:37:23 Emma Think it becomes real? 00:37:25 Emma A lot of this in the way I approach it is to be very clear on what the intent is. 00:37:32 Emma And to recognize that whatever the information is, it is translated back into an identic vocabulary that allows us to understand it, and so pure information exists beyond language. And so when we use what most people call the clairs. 00:37:50 Emma What most people call the inner senses like they see something with their inner vision or they feel something. 00:37:55 Emma Physically, is to recognize that it's not the pure original information that's an attempt to translate it into something that you would understand. 00:38:05 Emma And in doing so, there is some creative effort. 00:38:10 Emma There, but if you. 00:38:12 Emma Can feel behind that to what the pure meaning is. Then you can actually understand that and or attempt to understand what's really being communicated. Is not the image, it's the meaning behind the image. The other thing is I did truly recommend that people really learn and study. 00:38:32 Emma And master if they can, or at least gain competence on getting information from the inner inner abilities inner senses. 00:38:43 Emma In a way that you can then affirm. 00:38:45 Emma So remote viewing is a fantastic one because if you have to find someplace that you don't know what it is that you're even looking for and you're able to bring an accurate information, then you learn your own vocabulary. You learn how to distinguish between kind of good information that's coming in versus. 00:39:04 Emma Is I'm just making this up because I'm desperate to get something and I don't want to come up empty handed, which some of that, frankly, is a matter of training. You know, if you're if you're not reminded as a student that it's not about being right and it's not even about getting anything at all. It's about listening. So if you can train on something where you can have. 00:39:26 Emma Someone affirm. 00:39:29 Emma Even if it's learning to do eventually readings where you're describing information about. 00:39:35 Emma Someone that you do not. 00:39:36 Emma Know they can then. 00:39:37 Emma Affirm back to you that yes, that is accurate. 00:39:41 Thank you. 00:39:41 Emma And then you. 00:39:42 Emma It's, I think a bit easier to make that distinction between the good, the accurate information. 00:39:47 Emma Came to me this way. 00:39:50 Emma And then I had that after it first as I can tell when I'm kind of making it that that kind of the thing. Yeah, because I I think there is a distinction. Yeah. Yeah. 00:40:02 Merrily So I know that you had described sort of related I have I have where I want this to go. But you had described sort of seeing the code of the universe in sort of like I think you said it was in a morning time sort of like was it at. 00:40:21 Merrily It's not hypnogogic, it's the other one. There's, like, hypnogogic is when you're falling asleep hypnopompic. 00:40:26 Emma Most of the yeah, like the standard terminology is like in your, I call it the liminal state. So when I, I do dream interpretation and a little bit differently than what's typically out there. 00:40:38 Emma But there's that liminal state, both when you're falling asleep and coming out of a sleep, where you're. 00:40:44 Emma Not really in either. 00:40:46 Emma You're not fully focused out there in the world, but you're not really completely asleep either. You're. 00:40:50 Emma Sort of. In this middle zone. 00:40:52 Emma And as you're falling asleep, the Hypnos hypnogogic is. Is that as you're coming awake. 00:40:58 Emma They call it hypnopompic, but it's a fairly common occurrence for me as I'm falling asleep to to transit through a liminal state and to maybe go lucid. Or maybe not. It can go either way, but as I'm falling asleep sometimes, what I'll see is abstract. 00:41:16 Emma Like sheets that like went like flowing sheets, like scrolling up of of like old binary code like green screen 01010001 and it just it's like it's flowing sheet and sometimes it can go into abstract color, shape symbols. But one of the things that is very common. 00:41:37 Emma And my experience is that is it either scrolls like like on an old computer screen or it changes really fast. It's kind of like pulsing very quickly and my understanding of that is that as we are falling asleep. 00:41:54 Emma Our consciousness is beginning. 00:41:56 Emma To travel. 00:41:58 Emma Away from outer focus and travel inward, and as we pass through the layers of our own consciousness, we transit through what I'll just call the structural underpinnings of physical reality. And so we're having this experience where we're literally kind of moving through. 00:42:18 Emma A middle zone here and whatever you experience or see in a dreamlike state that seems physical is just a rendering or a translation of what's actually happening. And so sheet flowing scrolling sheets of green. 00:42:39 Emma Screen binary code is something that can only have happened in the twenty 20th century or later, so it's really in my minds translation of what I will call very rudimentary substructures. Very rudimentary. 00:42:58 Emma Forms, patterns, information. 00:43:03 Emma And because I don't need to really process all of that, I see it in its sort of symbolic rudimentary form like you would see binary code or just abstract shapes, and then it can go into deeper layers of sleep where you start to have more of what we think of as like the narrative dreams or the dream events. 00:43:13 This is. 00:43:23 Emma And I do remember because you had shared with me that you saw something similar, but it was more when you were waking up. Yeah. Yeah. And so that that suggests it's possible. I I don't claim to know everything about about this. But as you were transiting back into physical focus into physical reality. 00:43:42 Emma You're once again passing through those layers. 00:43:46 Emma These kind of structural underpinnings and they are like these rudimentary sub structures really like the the the, the source code of our own physical. 00:43:57 Emma Reality, if I often. 00:43:59 Emma Use in my classes the metaphor of. 00:44:01 Emma A web page. 00:44:02 Emma And the life that you're having is like one web page. 00:44:05 Emma But you have to render it by pulling open your device right? But the web page is not really the source thing that creates it, it's that source code behind it that travels to your particular. 00:44:19 Emma Physical body, yeah. 00:44:22 Merrily Very cool. I like the idea of it sort of being a transition sort of place, so I'll just share. So the the thing I saw very similar, but it it was on like it initially appeared like it was on a scroll. 00:44:39 Merrily In old school, so to me it was looking different. 00:44:42 Merrily But then it had like the different codes and they were switching kind of like I call it like the matrix. 00:44:47 Merrily Code. It's like doing that. 00:44:50 Merrily But I think because I was in that in between state and I didn't really, it felt like I was awake, but I wasn't. But I could tell it. 00:44:57 Merrily To do things. 00:44:58 Merrily So I was like telling it to rotate and then I could see like layers and I called them. 00:45:02 Merrily Photoshop layers because I've used Photoshop. It's just like layers and it went down into Infinity, yeah. 00:45:05 Emma Yeah, layers, layers of consciousness, absolutely. 00:45:10 Emma That's so beautiful because that tells me that your way of symbolic land. 00:45:14 Emma Which I think of like rudimentary source code as being old green screen binary code. But you went back even further. You went back to the ancient. 00:45:23 Emma Dead Sea Scrolls. 00:45:24 Merrily I guess so. I was like, OK. 00:45:26 Emma And what I love about this, as you pointed out, something that the liminal state is one of my favorite people make such. 00:45:32 Emma A big deal about the lucid state. 00:45:34 Emma And and what have you, but the liminal state is one of the most powerful, because that's where you can suggest things to yourself and actually generate dream. 00:45:46 Emma That give you information while you're in that liminal state, if you can. 00:45:50 Emma Learn to hold it open. 00:45:52 Emma And so yes, you can actually give instructions to your dreaming consciousness to make things happen, and it's it's pretty fascinating what you can do. 00:46:02 Merrily Well, I guess. 00:46:03 Merrily 2:00 so it will be sort of the my last thing on that. But so for me, I'm always like what the heck, I'm always just in this state of like say hey, am I looking at like, I'm just like shocked and always very amused. So is there a way for me to like? 00:46:20 Merrily I guess consciously now I can try to remember to, you know, do some my own programming in that state if it happens again, I'm sure it will happen again. But. 00:46:30 Merrily Like, do you have a technique for that like you know? 00:46:34 Emma We're kind of riding the liminal state. 00:46:36 Merrily Yeah. Or like when to know that you're in it and then go. Ohh, yeah. Now I need to do that thing where I need to program. 00:46:42 Emma Yeah, it's, it's it's, it's. 00:46:44 Emma Almost as tricky as holding a lucid state, which I actually find a little bit trickier, but I like. 00:46:48 Emma The liminal state better. So I I have. 00:46:51 Emma To stay more of that. 00:46:52 Emma So my my tip that I would give individuals is 1, don't try to. 00:46:57 Emma Come out of it. In fact, don't try to think with your logical mind or observe. So one of the things that snaps consciousness out of experience is instead of experiencing, it tries to separate itself and observe. So maybe you or your listeners have had this experience, or you do. 00:47:18 Emma Meditation. You're visualizing something, and sometimes you're first person and sometimes you're third person. Right? OK. So there's a really powerful difference between the first person and the third person. 00:47:29 Emma And as you are in first person, you're actually creating that experience and and having it when you snap into the observer role, then you're actually attempting to separate yourself from that activity and that action and and that actually can pull you out of it. 00:47:49 Emma Because now you're watching rather than doing so one is to not attempt to. It's very delicate. It's a. It's a finite little balance here, but do not attempt to observe what's happening or logically process it. Just tell yourself. 00:48:06 Emma I want this. I'm doing that. 00:48:08 Emma And then just. 00:48:09 Emma Let it happen without trying to logically examine it. 00:48:13 Merrily OK, cool. I'll try to remember to do. 00:48:16 Merrily That for sure, because I'm always. 00:48:18 Merrily Just like laughing at it. Like, what the heck? This is hilarious. 00:48:21 Emma Yeah, it's it's a neat state to ride. I can't. Well, maybe we'll have another podcast episode, and you can update everyone on on your Liminal adventures. 00:48:33 Merrily Yeah, I like that too cause. 00:48:35 Merrily I I found I found when I was a kid I was very much into lucid dreaming. I could do it very easily, but as an adult I really can't. But liminal states, like, at least in the recent. 00:48:44 Merrily Years are like all the time. So. 00:48:47 Emma Yeah, that's good. Well, then that's just the. 00:48:49 Emma Right thing for you to to go. 00:48:51 Merrily Go with that. Yeah. So we're kind of wrapping up here. Do you have? m, so if you would like to leave our listeners with either a mantra or a motto that you can that serves you very well that you'd like to share. 00:49:08 Emma Yeah, I I I do have one that I've I've had for a while. I wouldn't call it a mantra, but I would call it a principle that I remind myself of. It's just work through it. There's always a way. Yeah, whatever difficulty problem. 00:49:25 Emma Thing that doesn't seem like it's going to work out. 00:49:30 Emma Just work through it. 00:49:32 Emma And know that there's always a way. 00:49:34 Merrily Cool. I like that very direct and and easy to remember. I like that. 00:49:41 Merrily So I know, gosh, I know that you do so so much, but what is your current area of focus that you'd like to share? 00:49:50 Emma Yeah, absolutely. So I am teaching. So I teach remote viewing. Taro got that tomorrow. And let's see, I do teach belief work. I have some classes and workshops I teach on belief work and absolutely purposeful dreaming and interpretation. So I do some free monthly drop in discussion. 00:50:10 Emma Oops. And I also am offering one-on-one sessions in healing and those are very instructional format where I really look to give that person tools that they can take away and work at home and and be effective. 00:50:30 Emma On on promoting their own well-being, even without. 00:50:35 Emma You know the expert. 00:50:38 Emma Administrations of of healers such as yourself, so yeah. 00:50:45 Merrily Thank you for that. Do you have some contact information that you would? 00:50:51 Merrily Like to share with them? 00:50:51 Yeah, you can look. 00:50:52 Emma At a lot of my offerings in the Seattle area, the expanded mine group at meetup.com, so you can just go on a meetup.com and look for. 00:51:02 Emma Or Seattle area Dream dream classes, dream events or terror or. 00:51:08 Emma What have you? 00:51:09 Emma Also, my website is just my name emmadevan.com so you can find some links to my offerings there as well. 00:51:15 Merrily Well, well, thank you so much, Emma, for being my guest and sharing all the wonderful information that you. 00:51:22 Merrily Have and take care. 00:51:23 Emma Thank you. Thank you for having me it. 00:51:24 Emma Was a pleasure. 00:51:27 Merrily Interview with Emma Devan, where we discussed her spiritual journey and expert teaching experience with remote viewing and working with trans states. Visit emmadevan.com to learn more about her and her practice, and if you are in the Seattle area, you can check out her meetup.com Expanded Mind Group to learn more about the Casual Temple podcast, please visit our website, casual. 00:51:46 Merrily Temple.com there's a casual temple YouTube channel and you can follow me on Instagram with username at Merrily Duffy or at Casual Temple. Please be sure to leave a review and share this episode with the people in your life who would enjoy this content. Do check out the other episodes of the Casual Temple podcast on Your Preferred podcast app and thank you so much for.

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EPISODE 1 - EMMA DEVAN

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