Casual Temple

TRANSCRIPT

(Transcript is auto-generated; errors are unintentional.)

00:00:05 Jaycee

Welcome to casual Temple episode 19.

00:00:08 Jaycee

I'm JC Merilee's husband. She doesn't have guests lined up this week, so I'll be asking her questions.

00:00:15 Jaycee

On the most thrilling topic of all books.

00:00:19 Jaycee

So what are you currently reading, right?

00:00:23 Merrily

Oh, I am currently reading a few books. I tend to read, uh, a few books at a time. So.

00:00:31 Merrily

I'm reading the book of Abramelin, the mage by SL Mathers. I might have gotten that wrong, but it's that main book that most people have read for.

00:00:45 Merrily

Talking about the knowledge and conversation of the.

00:00:47 Merrily

Holy guardian Angel.

00:00:49 Merrily

And then another book from I just started reading is the magic of the Orphic hymns by Tamara Lucid and Ronnie Pontiac. And it's very cool. I've been listening to Ronnie.

00:01:03 Merrily

Have quite a few interviews where he talks about the.

00:01:05 Merrily

Orphic hymns and.

00:01:06 Merrily

It's something that I use in my planetary practice and that I know chasing when you're also doing planetary practices, you kind of.

00:01:17 Merrily

Use the orphans as well as maybe in more of a recorded musical sense and then.

00:01:26 Merrily

A third book, what is it? I don't think that book I'm reading the Book of Enoch. I started reading that one. That one's pretty. It's basically like reading the Bible. So it's very dense, but it's interesting.

00:01:41 Merrily

I think it's like an apocryphal text, so it's not part of the main Bible, obviously, and it's translated. So you know you have that to.

00:01:49 Merrily

Work through that.

00:01:50 Merrily

Are reading that and then I'm also reading or actually I'm I'm meaning to start very, very probably in the mix of these three books. Is Malia bahmani.

00:02:01 Merrily

She has a book called The Conjuring the Calabash.

00:02:05 Merrily

And you actually drew me to her because you had seen her give a talk on the well ends 2022, like online convention that they did. And you really liked what she said. And I was like looking into her. And yeah, she has, like, a really cool approach to she mainly does like voodoo.

00:02:25 Merrily

And social work and then working with spirits of the land. So she has a lot of really like I don't want. I want to put words.

00:02:32 Merrily

In her mouth, but.

00:02:33 Merrily

From my observation, it looks kind of like an eclectic practice with a bunch of different ways of doing things and something that's attractive to me because I tend to think my practice is also Coptic. So.

00:02:46 Merrily

Those are the four books.

00:02:47 Merrily

I'm mainly reading right now.

00:02:52 Jaycee

So would you read these simultaneously or you just reading a page from each day? Or how are you approaching juggling so much different material?

00:03:01 Merrily

Well, I've kind of done this since I was a kid where I would read a bunch of books at the same time, and it's not. And then I would read one book and then I would be like, oh, I'm kind of done with that and then or done with that for now because I kind of need.

00:03:14 Merrily

To absorb.

00:03:15 Merrily

What I just read, but I can also just pick up another book and then.

00:03:18 Merrily

Start. Start it up.

00:03:21 Merrily

Where I left off in it, so I tend to read something for a while and then it's not going to get bored. It's more like, OK, there's a lot here that you need to process, but I also have a lot of books to read and I like reading, so I'll just pick up another book.

00:03:37 Merrily

And yeah, it doesn't. I think a lot of people have trouble kind of doing that, and that's fine because I'll like literally have, like be in different stages of the book and just pick it up and I'll recall what I had read previously. So it's not, I don't feel like I'm missing anything, if that makes sense, but.

00:03:54 Merrily

Yeah. So I just kind of have the, I call it like the rotating pile of books and then I'll finish them when I finish them, some take longer than others.

00:04:05 Merrily

Like I'd say Dune, I know this isn't part of what we're reading, but I read dune a couple years ago and that thing took me like a year and a half to read because it was like there was a lot to digest in it. And you know, I had to pause reading it and picking something else up. But you know, that's kind.

00:04:22 Merrily

Of how I tend to read.

00:04:24 Jaycee

Well, along those lines, the book about that you mentioned about abramelin the mage is a Dover publication and those tend to be facsimiles of things.

00:04:37 Jaycee

Early in the.

00:04:38 Jaycee

20th century or from previous centuries you find that a bit challenging to read things that are.

00:04:45 Jaycee

Not in contemporary English.

00:04:48 Merrily

Well, the one the ever Golan book is a translation by us all matters. So Samuel Mathers, it's actually fairly modern reading it. And he actually has very modern ideas. I think I even pointed out something to you that I thought was pretty funny was.

00:05:04 Merrily

He had a footnote because you know, the Abramelin book. I think it's supposed to be set trying to, you know, I'm going to get this.

00:05:13 Merrily

Wrong. I should know it, cause I've been read.

00:05:14 Merrily

Yeah, but.

00:05:15 Merrily

I think the whole like recording of the book of the History of the Book of Out, You know, Abram Melon is somewhere I think in like the 1300s, something like that. And so he's translating this manuscript and that was already archaic. And now there's is from the I think.

00:05:35 Merrily

Mid 88, well I say 18th century mid 18.

00:05:41 Merrily

Translating it, but it's it's still pretty modern sounding like reading for the most part. So I I found it fairly easy to follow. Some folks might have trouble with it, I'm not sure, but there was a portion in it where he had called out like I think it was something like.

00:06:00 Merrily

Oh, women shouldn't practice this particular magic of like knowledge and conversation with Holly Rangel because they tend to gossip a lot, and I think I pointed that section out to you because I thought it was hilarious. And then now there's had a footnote and he was like, yeah, this is wrong. It's like, this is ridiculous or whatever you like. That's not true or, you know, so he said he kind of.

00:06:21 Merrily

You know, calling out that it was ridiculous that women women couldn't practice this particular magic because for whatever reason, it was, you know.

00:06:29 Merrily

Thought that women couldn't handle it or whatever, but it was pretty funny.

00:06:34 Jaycee

So they he he's not, but he's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right? So like, which is the tendency for a lot of?

00:06:45 Jaycee

Individuals these days to like instead of sifting through things.

00:06:51 Jaycee

UM.

00:06:53 Jaycee

The OR you know take issue with one particular thing and then completely dismiss the rest of it. I think cause you you had said something similar about because you were.

00:07:03 Jaycee

Reading the books by Dion Fortune.

00:07:06 Jaycee

And you know, obviously you know from her time period, she.

00:07:09 Jaycee

Has some backwards views.

00:07:12 Jaycee

We can.

00:07:16 Merrily

Yeah. I think for Dion Fortune, I was reading the mystical Kabbalah, which I've read quite a few books on Kabbalah and these are like, you know, modern books. I've got read the Super yet. So raw. I haven't read the Zohar yet, but you know that's coming.

00:07:31 Merrily

But sort of people talking about their systems of working with the kabala. But I really liked her quite a lot. Her mystical, mystical Kambala just her approach to it really resonated with me. But I will say that there was.

00:07:45 Merrily

And it's not like you can read one sentence where she says this. It's more of like I read quite a you.

00:07:51 Merrily

Know I read.

00:07:52 Merrily

The whole book, but I kind of get ohh she putting together the different pieces of where she mentions things.

00:07:57 Merrily

And basically the sentiment was something like, oh, the Western, like the Western ceremonial approach to magic is the best one for spirituality. And you know, basically the West is amazing and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then the systems that came before.

00:08:16 Merrily

And you know, maybe it was just like poor wording or whatever, but I, you know, I do think a lot of it. You you have to look at it in context of of who the unfortunate was like her station in life of being British being of the upper class of coming from. Well, you know she's also a woman. So there is like that propensity to.

00:08:37 Merrily

You know, to put herself in a in a certain position, but there is a yeah, there was just like, certain things where she would basically say something along those lines. But I don't know if it was just like bad wording, but.

00:08:55 Merrily

I was just like, I don't know, I don't agree with this, but you know, I understand where you're you're the context of who.

00:09:01 Merrily

You were and.

00:09:02 Merrily

Where you came from, but it's. I'm not going to throw the rest of the book out because it's amazing. It's the most highlighted book I own, and I don't highlight books because I I don't tend to want to do that, but it's something where I I needed to highlight things so you can refer to them.

00:09:17 Merrily

In my own practice.

00:09:20 Jaycee

So you would say that there's like, you know, scrutinizing it there, there's.

00:09:26 Jaycee

Precious minerals that emits the dross and it's.

00:09:31 Jaycee

Not necessarily.

00:09:35 Jaycee

Conducive to one's practice, just to completely, you know.

00:09:43 Jaycee

Judge it is.

00:09:45 Jaycee

In a moral sense of this is good or bad material based on the.

00:09:51 Jaycee

The in context views of a person.

00:09:56 Jaycee

At a particular time.

00:09:58 Merrily

Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, there's plenty of these.

00:10:02 Merrily

Because you go to people like if.

00:10:03 Merrily

You you know.

00:10:04 Merrily

If if they had.

00:10:05 Merrily

Shared sort of their personal opinions or thoughts on either politics or.

00:10:12 Merrily

Any sort of subject at the time, you know, I guarantee you you're going to disagree with it. I I disagree with myself from 10 years ago. You know what I mean? So I.

00:10:22 Merrily

You know, I I just hope people would understand that. Yeah, there should be some stuff.

00:10:27 Merrily

Like I said I that.

00:10:29 Merrily

Passage and matters was really funny to me that he even called it out right. And you know, there's even stuff like maybe later on that, you know, I'll find that matter says that I'm like I.

00:10:38 Merrily

Don't know buddy, but.

00:10:41 Merrily

But yeah, so every generation is going to find something where, oh, we're kind of past this sort of way of thinking, right. And, you know, just kind of move on with it and just take the things from it that you really resonate with. Like even like the abramelin book, I'm taking my own notes from it. Right. I'm.

00:10:58 Merrily

Reading it and taking a lot of notes because I'm like, OK, this passage here, this thing's interesting. Like even one of the rituals and are a lot of magicians have pointed this out.

00:11:07 Merrily

In it.

00:11:10 Merrily

Every moment it calls for you using like a young boy of like 7 years old, as sort of your personal psychic scryer, right? Because children, under a certain age can see and sense things more readily than adults who maybe haven't developed their psychic.

00:11:25 Merrily

Powers. Right. And then Mathers even called out. He's like, no, we don't. No, we don't do that anymore, you know, because it's it's weird and creepy.

00:11:34 Merrily

And children shouldn't be subjected to these things that you know, or for the adults benefit, right? It's not really for the benefit of the child. So yeah. So even in that respect, like, there's a lot of things that matters was questioning and saying no, you have to do this thing. So I think that's at least for me in my own practice. It's like, yeah, there's things you can look at.

00:11:53 Merrily

And you know it's not sync or sync. You can't. You know, you can't say. I don't agree with this.

00:11:58 Merrily

Like I don't.

00:12:00 Merrily

Or like maybe I you know, I see it from a different perspective and I might try it a different way like in in this case that I'm describing about the.

00:12:10 Merrily

Using a child as your psychic sprayer. My opinion is that, and I think magicians are are are understanding this is to develop your own psychic abilities and psychic senses, right? And that was the unfortunately very much about doing that. So I think instead of having to have the experience.

00:12:29 Merrily

Aid to you, either by a psychic child or a seer like Edward Kelly and.

00:12:35 Merrily

And why am I?

00:12:36 Merrily

Creating his name.

00:12:38

John believes.

00:12:39 Merrily

Erica and Johnny's like, you know, try to develop your own psychic senses. Now, maybe you know you're not going.

00:12:46 Merrily

To have the.

00:12:48 Merrily

The the same maybe intense experience, like somebody who has the sensitivity, but you would understand what your own psychic senses are, and then that you can trust that what you're experiencing is true.

00:13:00 Merrily

And if it?

00:13:00 Merrily

Isn't as quote UN quote.

00:13:01 Merrily

Strong as somebody else might be experiencing, but I think that is a way that.

00:13:08 Merrily

Some magicians are going forward with it.

00:13:12 Merrily

Is to develop their own sort of psychic senses and sensitivities so they can have these experiences for themselves.

00:13:21 Jaycee

It reminds me of the the what is it the the Greco Egyptian magic or want you to go and find a separate human hand? You think like something like that could be reinterpreted in the now like, oh, I'm going to.

00:13:37 Jaycee

Make a.

00:13:38 Jaycee

A cake in the shape of a hand and use it.

00:13:40 Jaycee

And utilize that.

00:13:42 Jaycee

Getting the shovels out or.

00:13:45 Merrily

Yeah, it's something it's definitely like that. I think it was in the black pool. It was something I had joked about in.

00:13:51 Merrily

The magic discords I was in. I was like like that. That whole thing kind of freaked me out or whatever you would, you know, take like a dead man's hand or whatever you would.

00:14:01 Merrily

Incorporate it in your magical spells, but it yeah, like in your example you can say, oh OK, we're basically working with like materia from the Earth and that could be a.

00:14:12 Merrily

Ache in the shape of a hand, right? You don't necessarily have to have a hand right now. I'm sure there would be arguments either way, but again, it's like, OK, yeah, I guess if you want like.

00:14:24 Speaker 3

A script type of.

00:14:25 Merrily

Situation that happened maybe more quickly, more intensely, I guess use the hand, but I mean it's kind of.

00:14:32 Merrily

Not cool. Just don't do it. Just use the cake and develop other senses or whatever you need from the outcome. It's just kind of ridiculous.

00:14:42 Jaycee

Yeah, it seems a bit extreme, even like in Bronze Age Europe, you know, like making carvings of body parts, you know, out of wood, chucking them into sacred rivers.

00:14:55 Jaycee

Like hands and legs and whatnot. Whatever part of your body that ails you. What?

00:15:00 Jaycee

Was the thing about.

00:15:02 Jaycee

The belt mat of lion pelt.

00:15:07 Merrily

Oh yeah, that's a A1. I know there was one. I can't remember which one. I always confused to these two magicians.

00:15:14 Merrily

That wrote a book.

00:15:16 Merrily

But one of them, he's like he has a lions mane belt belt and you know.

00:15:24 Merrily

Whatever you think about.

00:15:25 Merrily

That because you know he.

00:15:26 Merrily

Has it? Whatever. I don't know. You know, it's his own decision to use that, but.

00:15:35 Merrily

You know, I don't know.

00:15:36 Merrily

I feel like there could.

00:15:37 Merrily

Be that's why I'm kind of.

00:15:38 Merrily

Looking at the.

00:15:40 Merrily

Other melon book and taking my notes because I do feel like there's ways to.

00:15:45 Merrily

Accomplish the same effect if you understand you, you understand what the goal is, but in the way to get there right like one of the steps in in the abramelin ritual is further dirt down after you you do a lot.

00:15:58 Merrily

Of sort of your own body purification where it's literally taking a shower, right? It's nothing.

00:16:04 Merrily

Crazy. You're taking a shower. You might like light some incense, you know.

00:16:10 Merrily

But one of it is when you're not doing the particular rituals that are spelled out.

00:16:16 Merrily

You read spiritual books or it says to read the Bible right? To read the gospels. True or not, the gospels. But to read the Bible. And so to me, it's like, OK, well, you know, maybe that's not my book of spirituality choice, but maybe read books on spirituality like we just we started talking about.

00:16:35 Merrily

Just do that, you know, read about like maybe a specific track of spirituality that you're very interested in if you're approaching this ritual that you want to do, like, read a bunch of books on Buddhism or whatever. And you know that I, I don't think I think these things can be tweaked, especially for the modern age.

00:16:54 Merrily

And I know there's a lot of magicians that have kind of tweeted, they were probably hate me saying that, but tweaking the abramelin ritual for the modern age because it is a different time, right? We we there's different times or different things that are acceptable to do there's different.

00:17:13 Merrily

There's different pools aren't our focus and attention. So yeah, that's that's what I have to say about that.

00:17:23 Jaycee

So it's more the essence of the material.

00:17:27 Jaycee

Via like.

00:17:30 Jaycee

Authenticity of things in.

00:17:31 Jaycee

Its original form.

00:17:36 Jaycee

How does how does that relate to like the presentation and construction of books? Because obviously, like you mentioned, a book.

00:17:44 Jaycee

That Dover published the Dover Books are are really well, well bound for for trade paperbacks, and they're usually on acid free paper. But there's this tendency in recent decades to.

00:18:01 Jaycee

To publish things uh as finely as possible. You know, like Smithsonian with the heavyweight paper and.

00:18:10 Jaycee

Maybe cold metal letterpress, fancy bindings, that sort of thing, do you think?

00:18:17 Jaycee

Like what role does that serve to to take that that much care with uh?

00:18:26 Jaycee

With a published work.

00:18:30 Jaycee

Is it? Is it necessary or you know? Or is it? Is it just the material that is is valuable?

00:18:39 Merrily

I think it's well. Again, there's sort of different approaches. My approach to it is like you really just want the information.

00:18:48 Merrily

But you know there is something about like I bought this particular beautiful.

00:18:55 Merrily

Book in this beautiful version of this book because I find that the information is of value intrinsic, maybe even intrinsic value, right? Like it, it exceeds the value of the attention and care that was put into the actual binding.

00:19:10 Merrily

But if you get down to the the bones of it, you really just want the information really. And I think I told you we had talked about this, but it's kind of in a similar vein of like music because we're both music.

00:19:21 Merrily

Fans and you know huge. You know, I'm I really love post music. I listen to quite a lot.

00:19:29 Merrily

Of it, I have a lot of it.

00:19:30 Merrily

Or, you know, it's digital. I have a lot of CD's. You know, you remember those kids?

00:19:34 Merrily

But I do collect like the actual vinyls of my favorite bands, right? Like my favorite favorite bands. I will go and like, I want the vinyl copy of it, and if they've had like a new pressing or a new like remaster or new art, I I will buy it. If it's my favorite bands I'm looking at.

00:19:53 Merrily

You the chameleons, you take.

00:19:54 Merrily

It's probably the one I have the most of, but yeah, I think I I kind of approach it in that way. It's like information first, but if it's your favorite or you find that this is valuable, you might want like a really beautiful copy of it.

00:20:10 Jaycee

I think we've encountered.

00:20:13 Jaycee

Some things that are worthy of of expensive binding or in like a really cheap format and then on the flip side there are some things that are just just awful and and.

00:20:30 Jaycee

And they're tarted up a bit.

00:20:35 Jaycee

How do you feel about that? Because we have that we have one particular book. I won't mention the title of it. It's the most beautifully bound book.

00:20:45 Jaycee

That I've ever held.

00:20:48 Jaycee

Ever in my life and I found it in one of those little library book drops.

00:20:53 Jaycee

On the in the neighborhoods and.

00:20:57 Jaycee

It's it's.

00:20:59 Jaycee

It's the absolute worst book ever in history that it's probably not what you're thinking of, but and we're spoke of of of the the topic area of your podcast. But it's.

00:21:14 Jaycee

But I I keep it because.

00:21:16 Jaycee

It's the most magnificent book.

00:21:19 Jaycee

Ever seen? I've handled it kind of roughly and it it, it still looks mint condition. I don't understand how they did this, but yeah, it's like there was no point because as I said it's it's.

00:21:32 Jaycee

It's complete garbage, but it's in a beautiful package.

00:21:38 Jaycee

So what do you think about that? Why that? Why that happens? I don't know.

00:21:43 Merrily

I think I well, I I feel with this, but I feel like I want to talk to say what this.

00:21:48 Merrily

Book is but I won't because you don't want.

00:21:50 Jaycee

No, no, no, no.

00:21:52 Merrily

But in these particular cases, I feel like, you know, buyer beware. In a lot of cases. And I think it's marketing, right, like, oh.

00:22:04 Merrily

You know, because the marketing marketing would.

00:22:07 Merrily

Oh, you know, we made this beautiful book, you know, with all the beautiful trappings of something that you want to keep forever because the information inside is something that is powerful and meaningful or whatever it is, or the story would be if it's like a.

00:22:22 Merrily

Nonfiction book that.

00:22:23 Merrily

You really resonated with you. You're going to want a beautiful copy of it.

00:22:26 Merrily

But they're tricking you. So buyer beware. They're tricking you with like the beautiful wrappings. And then you read the thing and you're.

00:22:34 Merrily

Like Oh my.

00:22:35 Merrily

God, this is awful. Like there was one recently, like you and I were looking at that.

00:22:41 Merrily

We were like, I can't believe that this got made. It's a beautiful, beautiful book. But like the interior, like, it was just terrible writing. So, you know, unfortunately, and you know.

00:22:54 Merrily

In those cases, it's hard because.

00:22:58 Merrily

You want to kind of read it beforehand, right? And there's a lot of, and I'll just say this.

00:23:02 Merrily

Too, there's a lot of friction.

00:23:04 Merrily

With like downloading books and you know and I and all that stuff in these communities and on one hand, I totally agree like we want the authors to be able to make their money and and this and this.

00:23:19 Merrily

But I do think that they really to do right by their readers. They really should have, like at least a downloadable digital copy that's very, very affordable. And then, you know, maybe even like pre released or I'm just going down this track. But like pre release or something then it builds up pipe because you're like, wow, this was amazing.

00:23:37 Merrily

I read it.

00:23:39 Merrily

I thought this stuff in the side was amazing and then you know, and then they're like, you know, a couple months later, they're like, oh, well, guess what? We're releasing the most beautiful addition with this and this and this on. And you're like, yes, I want that or whatever. But I feel like there's a lot of push and pull and arguments about.

00:23:56 Merrily

Downloading books and that sort of thing. I just feel like there needs to be a consideration because unfortunately.

00:24:05 Merrily

Beautiful books will be made, but then the interior is maybe not.

00:24:10 Merrily

Up to snuff.

00:24:11 Merrily

Are very useful for, you know, people going forward. So I, you know, I feel like there needs to be a little bit more discussion around.

00:24:19 Merrily

Sort of.

00:24:20 Merrily

These things, and the other frustration part, is you have people who are like, I just really want the information and I can't find it unless I pay $400.00 for I think though Ian was talking about that one book, the Black no, the Red Dragon we were talking about it in our interview. You know, our discussion about the demonic.

00:24:40 Merrily

Money. And it was like, Oh my gosh, it because like $500, you know, but but as a copy that he bought when I think it came out or maybe fairly after it came out so more affordable than $500.00. But you know he said it's an amazing book. But how unfortunate is it that we can't you know I I can't get a digital.

00:24:59 Merrily

Copy of it.

00:25:00 Merrily

Or people can't read it first, or there can't be, you know. So now that that.

00:25:06 Merrily

Information that's apparently really wonderful is just now, like kind of trapped in very few hands.

00:25:11 Jaycee

Yeah, there's a one particular book that was actually written and published here in Seattle. Probably if you looked hard enough around here with the antiquarians, you might be able to find a copy, but it's impossible to get your hands on, but it's readily available available.

00:25:33 Jaycee

In a pirated form, usually piracy. I know you were talking about the PDFs and stuff like that. It's more of a of a delivery service problem like the piracy wouldn't exist because people, people I I believe people legitimately would like to be able to purchase thing as you said.

00:25:54 Jaycee

And and you can't because you know the only so many copies were made. And I I get that, especially these things that are, they're bound and fancy buckram, you know, or whatnot.

00:26:07 Jaycee

It's inexpense, but at least maybe if they would move more towards pre-orders.

00:26:13 Jaycee

As opposed to limited limited editions.

00:26:15 Merrily

I think some of them do have the pre-order function, but I look again I'm going to make the vinyl comparison because.

00:26:24 Merrily

A lot of hubbub was made around, like digital copies and you know, and there, you know.

00:26:29 Merrily

I I don't have this really is a horse in the race or whatever. So. But you know we have seen sort of the rise of vinyl again, right. That's kind of how music stores are able to survive is because vinyl has had like a humongous come back.

00:26:45 Jaycee

Yeah, I mean it's it's the highest selling physical media currently of music recordings, yeah.

00:26:56 Speaker 3

So like I said.

00:26:57 Merrily

You know, I want people, I want authors and publishers to make money for sure. I just, you know.

00:27:05 Merrily

I mainly I just want the information and I will. I'll pay for it. I'll pay.

00:27:10 Merrily

For the information.

00:27:12 Merrily

But you know, but do I need it in a $500?

00:27:16 Merrily

You know, goat skin, gold, lemon or whatever it was. You know, I don't think I need it that way. And yeah, I understand. Like they made.

00:27:24 Merrily

The other copies.

00:27:24 Merrily

Of they're kind of the standard editions or whatever, but even then they run out right? There's only however 500 copies made, so it's very limited, but I understand. And like you said, I think pre-orders is actually a really good idea and I don't know why.

00:27:38 Merrily

You know, necessarily I know some of some of the publishers who have done sort of pre-orders for like the following edition like I think the way they handle it now is like they have the 1st edition run of things and they do want those to be more special.

00:27:52 Merrily

And I get that, but but then they'll and then they'll do like second Edition, 3rd Edition runs well, they'll take pre-orders, and that's OK. Like, I'm OK with that, but I think especially with these new books that are coming out, it's like new authors that you're not familiar with, like you're really taking a chance and they want you to, like, Pop 50 bucks.

00:28:12 Merrily

On a.

00:28:13 Merrily

Book. And then you now have this really beautiful book that on one hand, you're like I I can't let it go because it's so beautiful, but it's so bad.

00:28:24 Merrily

So now you have.

00:28:25 Merrily

You know, you just created waste in your house and now you have to, you know, throw this book away, which is just a waste.

00:28:30 Merrily

And it's just kind of sad.

00:28:33 Merrily

You know, I, you, you and I both love books. It's it's hard getting rid of them. Even though at some point you do have to, you know, maybe call your collection and to some extent but.

00:28:43 Merrily

Yeah, it's just, I don't know, it just makes, I don't know. I just feel like there there could be different solutions that could.

00:28:48 Merrily

Happen for books?

00:28:51 Jaycee

At the very least, I appreciate when they they offer different tiers of of binding. You know, like you could get like just like a square bound trade as opposed to.

00:29:05 Jaycee

You know things with boards or or.

00:29:10 Jaycee

Or beyond that, you know.

00:29:13 Speaker 3

Right.

00:29:13 Merrily

Yeah, I think there was like I'm.

00:29:14 Merrily

Trying to, I'm trying to look for it but.

00:29:16 Merrily

I have this book on.

00:29:17 Merrily

I think it's either gin magic or Arabic magic.

00:29:21 Merrily

It's a great book, but they really sit in just like a nice soft back paperback, you know? But then, of course, they have the nice, beautiful.

00:29:29 Merrily

Editions of that.

00:29:31 Merrily

Book, but I think the paperback Trevor, I can't remember who the publisher is, but.

00:29:36 Merrily

I think the paperback they make kind of perpetually, so it's something that the paperback won't go out of print if I recall.

00:29:43 Merrily

And so that's kind of nice because then you still have like you know, you might want to read up about gin magic or Arabic magic just, you know, your own edification. And now you got, you know, you're cool. I can get, like, the paperback and, you know, look into it or whatever.

00:29:55 Merrily

So I think that's a good solution as well.

00:29:57 Jaycee

Yeah, I mean, we definitely have way more access to.

00:30:02 Jaycee

Publications than we did say back.

00:30:04 Jaycee

In the 90s.

00:30:06 Jaycee

When you couldn't get your hands on anything. Yeah, you know.

00:30:12 Jaycee

And read the bibliography of.

00:30:14 Jaycee

And all these enticing titles and whatnot and you're just, I'm never going to get.

00:30:19 Jaycee

My hands on.

00:30:19 Jaycee

That, but now you can, you know, like I said, it's all there. You know, whether it's actually in print or, you know, people dangling pirated material in front of you, which is terribly.

00:30:34 Jaycee

Frustrating. I think it would be nice.

00:30:36 Jaycee

As you said.

00:30:36 Jaycee

If some of that stuff was available to purchase.

00:30:44 Jaycee

Trying to think what else did I want to cover here? I think it kind of got off topic. It's talking about the physical form of things. I think to get to go back to that yet again and it's just.

00:30:59 Jaycee

That kind of pertains to everything in in practice, really, whether it's like you can just, is it all in the mind or do you need it in in?

00:31:10 Jaycee

And also in physical form for it to you know.

00:31:17 Merrily

Is that a question?

00:31:19 Jaycee

I don't know, Jeezy. Maybe both.

00:31:20 Merrily

Or statement.

00:31:25 Jaycee

Is that like a balance of things like?

00:31:29 Jaycee

It's not complete unless something is either or. You know. That's why I brought up the things that.

00:31:37 Jaycee

That didn't necessarily need a special printing.

00:31:42 Jaycee

Because they're terrible. Yeah, but you know, it's something that's wonderful. It it. It's almost like it. It's almost there cause, like, even even when the material is is perfect.

00:31:54 Jaycee

If it's terrible prison, there's there's been a number of books that I just I wanted to read, but it didn't because it was they they chose a an ugly typeface. I I just couldn't get past it.

00:32:05 Jaycee

It, like Sears your eyes.

00:32:07 Merrily

Yeah, some of those old Dover magic books they have, like a terrible typeface.

00:32:14 Jaycee

Yeah, I mean that can't.

00:32:16 Jaycee

Be helped though, because those are photographs.

00:32:22 Jaycee

As you said, it would be an expense for them to.

00:32:26 Jaycee

To remaster them and print them. I think some people want the look of you know the.

00:32:34 Jaycee

Old fashioned typefaces and.

00:32:40 Jaycee

Is is something inaccessible if if it's?

00:32:44 Jaycee

In a poor format.

00:32:48 Jaycee

Thinking you know, you said it's it's about the words themselves or whatever and ideas. But like if you can't bear to.

00:32:56 Jaycee

Cast your eyes on it.

00:32:58 Merrily

Oh, I see what you're saying like.

00:33:02 Merrily

Yeah, because there's been some of those.

00:33:06 Merrily

I think even like those Dover books.

00:33:08 Merrily

I think like.

00:33:08 Merrily

Those like I I mentioned like the Zephyr. Yes, Sir. Like I think it is like a Dover publication. But it's hard. Like the font is like kind of bubbly looking and it's sort of hard to.

00:33:22 Merrily

Like it's hard to.

00:33:24 Merrily

Read because it's so weird looking.

00:33:29 Jaycee

There is a way to to.

00:33:33 Jaycee

Or remaster and a facsimile by laying digital typefaces or fonts on top of them. But no one's really tried that yet. I think that would go a long way of like, satisfying.

00:33:51 Jaycee

The desire to have something that looks archaic but is a little more legible.

00:33:58 Merrily

Yeah, I think they do a good job. That's why I kind of like the kinda.

00:34:02 Merrily

Books because they are things on Kindle. I tend to get a lot of books on Kindle too, because then it's just, you know.

00:34:09 Merrily

It's all the same type of fun.

00:34:10 Jaycee

Yeah, I think you can load.

00:34:11 Jaycee

Your own too, if you.

00:34:14 Merrily

So it's pretty nice.

00:34:17 Jaycee

OK, let's see. I like to get back to you.

00:34:22 Jaycee

Mentioning that you're juggling several books at once.

00:34:29 Jaycee

Do you tend to choose things that are?

00:34:33 Jaycee

Related in some fashion or you just is always just a random hodgepodge of things.

00:34:38 Merrily

It's kind of random but.

00:34:40 Merrily

It's it depends on the.

00:34:43 Merrily

Like right now I read.

00:34:44 Merrily

A lot of, like, spiritually based books, I guess. So it's just like I'm going through like I just, I'm reading a bunch of spiritual books.

00:34:53 Jaycee

Do you ever notice any synchronicity of disparate material where they first blush? It doesn't appear that they have anything in common, but.

00:35:05 Jaycee

Notice a through line to what you're currently reading.

00:35:09 Merrily

Yeah, I think so. I'm trying to trying to think like.

00:35:12 Merrily

What would that be?

00:35:15 Merrily

UM.

00:35:18 Merrily

I don't know. It's hard. It's hard to say. But yeah, I have. I can't point at certain examples, but it is definitely the case. Like I'm like, oh, this is kind of odd that this is.

00:35:27 Merrily

Something that was mentioned over here. Oh, actually, I gave an example. So like Todd Wilcox again. He was a guest on the show. And his book is like Slipstream Shaman.

00:35:36 Merrily

I had mentioned I asked him if he had read Saltram Leonie's book on feeding your teens because there is like a thing that he uses in his practice where he talks about how.

00:35:50 Merrily

He talks about how something that was helpful like, say, a helpful spirit or helpful entity is no longer helpful. It's kind of actually hindering you for whatever the reasons are. Like, it's now kind of not bad. It's just like hindering your.

00:36:05 Merrily

And so in social maliana she kind of looks at it as like demons are. She doesn't even talk about them being previously helpful, but like demons can be like an energy that.

00:36:17 Merrily

You know you can personify and work with and kind of get to the bottom of like why it's still kind of hanging around and what it actually needs from you. So it can actually transform into and transmute into something new. And so I was, you know, kind of drawing very similar parallels to kind of what Todd was describing, even though he's.

00:36:37 Merrily

You know, kind of doing it from his freeform fashion.

00:36:41 Merrily

There, yeah.

00:36:42 Jaycee

So maybe like the mischievous behavior is more of neglect and boredom and interaction as opposed to malevolence. You know, it's like some, like, notice me.

00:36:54 Merrily

Yeah, I mean, that's essentially A sultry melony like the book feeding your demons. It's like.

00:37:00 Merrily

The things that are the, quote UN quote demons your life or the things that.

00:37:03 Merrily

Are causing you issues or the things that you're not paying attention to. So in like your example, it's like a a child that wants attention, right? You're not giving these things attention for what are the reasons are you have your reasons or whatever? But now it's like.

00:37:16 Merrily

Either causing you some sort of mental, you know, malady and emotional, you know, issue or maybe, you know, physical issue like or even just like patterns that keep repeating in your life. Like one pattern would be like you keep stepping into the same type of destructive relationship, right with somebody. And it's like, how do I keep doing this? And it's like.

00:37:36 Merrily

There's like something that is trying to get your attention like this needs to change. It wants to be something new. You're not like letting it talk to you and letting, yeah.

00:37:49 Jaycee

Back to the topic of books. There's a lot of accounts of people.

00:37:56 Jaycee

Being near bookshelves or in a library or bookstore or whatnot and books flying off the shelves and smacking them in the head as if they like, want to be rid.

00:38:08 Jaycee

What do you think about that?

00:38:10 Merrily

Well, I kind of have.

00:38:11 Merrily

Like a weird.

00:38:13 Merrily

Telling somebody in one of the magic the square there was and I was like, I feel like just even having these books. Like you don't even necessarily read them in your house, like having them in your house is an energy, right? It is like putting that energy in your house. I know people would be like you got.

00:38:27 Merrily

To read the books to like, yeah, I do think.

00:38:29 Merrily

You know, on some level, if you want like a conscious.

00:38:32 Merrily

Understanding of the book, but I do think there's some sort of subconscious thing of like having that book in your house like, you know, some sort of energy. It's giving off. So now in the example of like it jumping off a shelf.

00:38:44 Merrily

I do think books have their energy. They have their life or whatever, and and I do think the.

00:38:48 Merrily

Spirit world or?

00:38:50 Merrily

You know, whatever you want to call that, it is trying to get your literally get your attention.

00:38:56 Merrily

And even if you're, you know, and a lot of people do the bibliomancy right. So if a book does fall off the shelf like that, they'll open it up and then, like, close, you know, close their eye and, like, open up a page and point their finger at it. And then.

00:39:09 Merrily

Most of the time, people are like, wow, that was really the passage I just read was really relevant to what's going on with me and gave me some new insight. So it's just another way of like it communicating with you, it being the spirit world or your guides or whatever you want to think is going on there.

00:39:27 Jaycee

Yeah, I mean I I think the past year I.

00:39:29 Jaycee

Kept fine. We we have Aiden Walkers books right over there and they're together. And I kept finding them on the floor. I was like, wondering what is why they I keep having to pick these up. They're like, completely knocked off the shelf. But it turns out one of our cats was constantly climbing behind.

00:39:45 Jaycee

And the particular segment on the bookshelf and was always always stepping on. He walked his books and pushing them backward as he was going behind.

00:39:55 Merrily

She wants us to read.

00:39:56 Jaycee

I caught her in.

00:39:57 Jaycee

The axe doing it, so I'm like.

00:40:02 Jaycee

I think you already read them though, right? And I haven't looked at it yet, but.

00:40:07 Jaycee

You know how it is. There's a million things you haven't.

00:40:11 Jaycee

Been able to read yet.

00:40:14 Jaycee

In terms of, I think that's what it was. I wanted to talk about the.

00:40:21 Jaycee

Physical form factor or both, because even when something say it's firing on all cylinders like the the the material is awesome, the construction of the book is is gorgeous, but then you might have it might have some trepidation about actually reading it because you're like, I don't want to get my.

00:40:41 Jaycee

Sweaty hands all over it. And you know treating it with kid gloves like way too preciously.

00:40:50 Jaycee

That might be the downside of.

00:40:54 Jaycee

These expensive books it's it's similar to how people who collect comic books treat them.

00:41:01 Jaycee

Instead of actually.

00:41:03 Jaycee

Utilizing the way they're meant, what they're meant for is you.

00:41:06 Jaycee

Know to be read.

00:41:08 Merrily

I think that's OK too, if you just want to keep it as like a.

00:41:10 Merrily

Beauty piece or you know, but.

00:41:13 Merrily

I mean ultimately, usually it has like an intrinsic thing like we have we collect, we have a lot of like a lot of say action figures. We have a lot of dolls and action figures and things like that. But but but because we don't play with them but they are like in a case you know protected or you know and it doesn't mean that.

00:41:31 Merrily

At one point we didn't either. You know, as children, you know, we play with them or it's like a.

00:41:37 Merrily

Like a like a action figure of a rock star like we have a Peter Murphy like action figure thing that you know. But it's more like, oh, this person or this thing is very important to us. We want to like Memorial memorialize it in in like this particular form. So it's OK that it's like that so.

00:41:56 Merrily

Same thing with like a book. It's like I but I feel like why have it if it's just beautiful and you're not and you don't necessarily resonate with the content is strange to that, that is, that is the only thing there's our cat like.

00:42:11 Merrily

Decline that thing.

00:42:14 Jaycee

Yeah, cats definitely have.

00:42:17 Jaycee

Zero respect for books, though.

00:42:20 Merrily

Our campaign for sure.

00:42:23 Jaycee

Chew of the corners.

00:42:25 Jaycee

Knock them off the shelf, lay on them, crumple them, smash them.

00:42:32 Jaycee

That's what they do.

00:42:34 Jaycee

I mean, there's nothing wrong with having a particular reverence for books, obviously.

00:42:39 Jaycee

Recently visited Ireland and they have like the Book of Kills and Uh.

00:42:44 Jaycee

And they.

00:42:46 Jaycee

Climate controlled.

00:42:48 Merrily

Yes, it's in a dark room in a bar, in a glass box with one light on it. Pretty cool.

00:42:54 Merrily

Because it's like.

00:42:55 Merrily

Oh, this is very important. It's very, you know, it's a lot of reverence.

00:42:58

Around it and.

00:42:58 Merrily

I'm like, that's cool, you know.

00:43:00 Jaycee

Do they?

00:43:02 Jaycee

Is it always open the same page or is it periodically?

00:43:06 Merrily

I mean, I'm guessing guessing it's open to the same particular page, probably the one they find is the most beautiful or beautiful one.

00:43:07 Jaycee

Turned into.

00:43:16 Jaycee

I forgot to check to see if it's been photographed and and uploaded because in recent years a lot of museums have photographed their collections and have made them available open source.

00:43:30 Jaycee

So it's it's worth looking at.

00:43:35 Jaycee

You know, it's a resource that didn't didn't really have until just very recently also.

00:43:44 Jaycee

In 2020, during the the so-called lockdowns or whatever.

00:43:50 Jaycee

The J store opened up access to.

00:43:54 Jaycee

Articles. I don't know if that's still going on though.

00:43:58 Jaycee

I mean it should be open to people because our, you know, we paid for a lot of that research, but.

00:44:05 Jaycee

That's another free resource where you can.

00:44:08 Jaycee

You can look at academic papers and whatnot.

00:44:14 Merrily

Even actually one.

00:44:16 Merrily

I think it's on Jays store that somebody had.

00:44:18 Merrily

Shared recently about.

00:44:20 Merrily

Experiences of of light, hallucinations and meditation and then that that was really cool because like you know, I do a lot of meditation and definitely experience.

00:44:32 Merrily

A lot of like.

00:44:32 Merrily

Lights happening in light activity so.

00:44:36 Merrily

Yeah. There I think it was a J store article on that.

00:44:42 Jaycee

Yeah, a lot of that material was heretofore behind a paywall.

00:44:52 Jaycee

I think what else I'm going to talk about.

00:44:55 Jaycee

Think I've gone off on too many tangents.

00:45:02 Jaycee

With something that you have on the shelf that you really, really want to get to.

00:45:06 Jaycee

But you just haven't found the time to.

00:45:09 Merrily

So many I'm like looking over here. The Book of the Black Cube is 1, about a Saturn. It really, really. Or is it? Oh, sorry, the cult of the Black cube.

00:45:22 Merrily

Is about, like Saturnian Colts, I think I really, really want to read that every time I see it. I'm like, I can read that, and then I have.

00:45:33 Merrily

But there's one on oh, the celestial, celestial intelligence. As I read that too. Oh, terrible.

00:45:42 Merrily

And then the.

00:45:43 Merrily

I have started like looking through the. I think it's David alter the the he translated the Hebrew Bible that you had made me aware of and we.

00:45:51 Merrily

Bought a copy of it.

00:45:53 Merrily

And it's beautifully, beautifully. Oh my gosh. Beautiful. So. But for that one, it's kind of quote easier for me because sometimes in my meditation practice, I'll pull it out and just start reading a practice or you do the building fancy where I'll just, like, flip through it. And like, you know, feel when I should read a passage out of it.

00:46:11 Merrily

Or or if I heard like a particular Hebrew name or something that like kept coming up recently, I might open that one up and look at it and read through it. But it's quite nice.

00:46:25 Jaycee

Came in a smash box, though. Yeah, yeah.

00:46:28 Merrily

It's Amazon for you.

00:46:33 Jaycee

OK, I can't think of anything else that I think I'm about tapped out.

00:46:39 Merrily

OK.

00:46:39 Speaker 3

OK. Well, thank you for preparing all these wonderful questions, honey. And yeah, thank you.

00:46:51 Merrily

Your support means the world to us. If you can join this podcast, please take a moment to like, comment and share it with others who might find this.

00:46:58 Merrily

Content valuable and of course, don't forget to hit that subscribe button to stay tuned for more enlightening discussions. Your engagement helps us grow, and we appreciate each and everyone of you. Thank you for being a part of the casual temple.

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EPISODE 19 - MERRILY & JAYCEE

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