EPISODE 27 - Fleetwood Haddock
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🌟 Welcome to episode 27 of Casual Temple! Dive into the mystical world of tarot with Fleetwood Haddock as he shares his transformative journey with tarot, recognizing it as a potent force.
Fleetwood delves into the intricacies of tarot reading, highlighting the significance of understanding each card and tailoring readings to the querent. He also unveils his method of using tarot for magical purposes, offering a glimpse into the mystical aura of cards like the High Priestess.
As a seasoned tarot reader, Fleetwood acknowledges the challenges learners face, particularly with the elusive PIP cards, and recommends meditation and personal interactions to better understand them. He also discusses the crucial role of timing in tarot readings and how he utilizes the Thoth tarot deck to perfect it, thanks to astrological correlations.
Fleetwood opens up about his personal journey, encompassing fatherhood and eerie experiences in a haunted apartment. He also shares his current interests in Buddhism and astrology, drawing inspiration and wisdom from both.
Definitely check out this engaging episode of Casual Temple!
Learn more about Merrily's energy healing work at Celestial Ring Guidance.
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Alan Chapman:
Magia
Advanced Magick for Beginners
Daniel Ingram:
Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha: An Unusually Hardcore Dharma Book - Revised and Expanded Edition
Amber Jayanti:
Tarot for Dummies
Jason Miller:
The Elements of Spellcrafting: 21 Keys to Successful Sorcery
Lee Morgan:
A Deed Without a Name: Unearthing the Legacy of Traditional Witchcraft
Podcast mentioned:
Salty Witches Podcast
(Transcript is auto-generated; errors are unintentional.)
00:00:04 Merrily
Welcome to the Casual Temple podcast episode 27, and I'm your host, Merrily Duffy at the Casual Temple. Our mission is to discover our connection to the unseen world of spirit, and how that empowers us to know our true selves and easy and free way to support the show is to follow or subscribe and hit that heart-shaped like.
00:00:20 Merrily
Button on your favorite podcast platform.
00:00:22 Merrily
Here we are episode 27 of casual temple with our sublime guest Fleetwood Haddock. Fleetwood is a divination specialist who shares his talent for geomancy and Tarot using Oracle decks and playing cards. Join us as we delve into fleet which journey with tarot to living in the world of esoterica. In addition to his thoughtful insights on Taro, we learn about servitor magic and the intertwining.
00:00:42 Merrily
Paths of Buddhism and astrology get ready for a conversation that touches on personal growth. Everyday magic, divination techniques, and the esoteric realm. Here on the casual temple.
00:00:55 Merrily
Welcome to the casual temple. This week we're joined by Fleetwood Haddock, who's a tarot reader, and esotericist.
00:01:02 Merrily
Good. I'm so.
00:01:03 Merrily
Happy to talk to Tarot with you today. I'm a casual temple.
00:01:07 Fleetwood
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. So sorry to be here to talk with you about it.
00:01:09 Merrily
Yeah.
00:01:12 Merrily
Yeah, I'm so excited. I saw you on Jason’s Almond Tree Podcast, which was a really good episode. Everybody should check it out because you go through some different spreads and sort of the cards that you use. And it was a really good explanation.
00:01:18 Fleetwood
MHM.
00:01:27 Merrily
I.
00:01:28 Merrily
That I saw. So I really liked it.
00:01:31 Merrily
So everybody, check it out. Jason does a great job. He's a really good interviewer and.
00:01:39 Fleetwood
Yeah, it was so much fun to talk to.
00:01:40 Merrily
Yeah, he's very fun to talk to.
00:01:42
Yes.
00:01:45 Merrily
Let's see. Oh, and I guess another shout out because I was like, I know you from Dara Masons spirit box, discord.
00:01:53 Merrily
Yeah.
00:01:53 Fleetwood
Yes.
00:01:54 Merrily
Yeah. And if you guys aren't listening to the spirit box, you should because there is amazing and has also really cool guests and he has a great discord where you can be cool people like Fleetwood and Jason's in there. And I'm in there. I don't know if I'm cool, but Jason and Fleetwood are. Yes.
00:02:11 Fleetwood
You know, it's all such a good group.
00:02:13 Merrily
It's a good it's a really good group.
00:02:15 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:02:16 Merrily
So yeah, a lot of good stuff. So I'm so excited. I've heard a little bit about kind of where you you.
00:02:22 Merrily
Came from and.
00:02:23 Merrily
Your story with you know why tarot.
00:02:27 Merrily
But is there sort of like either like pivotal moment or somewhere where it was like, OK, Tarot is going to be for me or wherever you want to start with kind of that story.
00:02:37 Fleetwood
Well, I always go back to starting with tarot for dummies because it is like, I don't know, I have to chuckle every time I, you know, know that that's how I started down this path. But it actually is a I've mentioned it to a couple other terror leaders and I've never had anyone say.
00:02:58 Fleetwood
Say a bad thing about it that's familiar with it.
00:03:02 Fleetwood
And I still to this day use the right await Smith deck that came with the book is the first deck of cards or first deck terror deck that I got.
00:03:14 Fleetwood
But yeah, that book does a really good job of.
00:03:18 Fleetwood
Allowing you to come to tarot kind.
00:03:21 Fleetwood
Of wherever you are.
00:03:23 Fleetwood
Like at the timeouts coming to it from a very materialist kind of atheist point of view and.
00:03:31 Fleetwood
I I think one of the most influential parts of the journey over the years is how.
00:03:37 Fleetwood
Much.
00:03:39 Fleetwood
The term itself has proven to be otherwise for me in all sorts of different ways, but it's not just a deck of cards that reflects my own psychology is very, you know, it's its own entity that you can talk to and have a conversation with.
00:03:59 Fleetwood
And you know, it's it's really powerful in that regards.
00:04:04 Fleetwood
Mm-hmm.
00:04:06 Merrily
Yeah. Oh, you did see the term that I'm.
00:04:08 Merrily
Very curious where.
00:04:11 Merrily
You got the term atheist materialism from? Or is that the term that you kind of developed for yourself?
00:04:18 Fleetwood
It's it's been, we've kind of heard separately before, but it was kind of the two things that I, I say materialists in the sense that there's nothing like we were spiritual about tarot cards is kind of my feeling at the beginning that it was literally just a set of cards.
00:04:39 Fleetwood
And you know, it just worked from shuffling and.
00:04:42 Fleetwood
Reflecting your subconscious backup at you.
00:04:44 Merrily
Right.
00:04:46 Fleetwood
But like I said, it's.
00:04:50 Fleetwood
I'm definitely not an atheist anymore. I've had a lot of experiences since my early 20s that have led me to not be.
00:05:04 Merrily
Yeah, I definitely think because I think I've heard the term, not that I want to go like, totally into atheism. The term atheist materialism. I've heard, Christopher. Why not say that term quite a bit and that he's an astrological magician? That is amazing. Yeah.
00:05:09 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:05:15 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:05:20 Fleetwood
Yes.
00:05:22 Fleetwood
I really love the episodes of the Astrology podcast with him on it.
00:05:26 Merrily
Yeah.
00:05:28 Merrily
Just so knowledgeable and he explains that what that means.
00:05:31 Merrily
Very well and I just, I love it so much.
00:05:35 Merrily
So would you want to share like what was something that did happen to kind of make you think atheism wasn't the path for you in this life?
00:05:45 Fleetwood
Well, there was a number of different experiences, I mean.
00:05:51 Fleetwood
First of all, having a child was probably it's. It's hard to, there's just something magical about having a kid and watching them grow and grow up in front of you and help shape them and stuff like that. There's just such a.
00:06:08 Fleetwood
Natural magic to that, but.
00:06:13 Fleetwood
Throughout my.
00:06:16 Fleetwood
Daughters upbringing, but I had kind of a tumultuous ride and do that have.
00:06:25 Fleetwood
You know, you know, they say there's no atheists in foxholes and not that I wouldn't worry anything, but it definitely had some.
00:06:30
Right.
00:06:35 Fleetwood
You know, shaky moments there and I kind of had a haunted apartment that I lived in for a while that just had a a really, really negative energy around it and kind of had to learn.
00:06:37 Merrily
Hmm.
00:06:45 Merrily
Yeah.
00:06:53 Fleetwood
Protection. You know, kind of travel by fire in that sense because it's not like I could move really easily at the time, I was a single parent and raising my daughter by myself and yeah, really kind of.
00:07:07
Oh.
00:07:10 Fleetwood
Vulnerable to it.
00:07:11 Fleetwood
The time when I became aware and.
00:07:16 Fleetwood
Yeah, kind of messed up a few things.
00:07:19 Fleetwood
In my life there for a while.
00:07:21 Fleetwood
Kind of struggled with addiction and went through a lot of the.
00:07:25 Fleetwood
Struggles that people go with when they.
00:07:29 Fleetwood
Are in kind of darker.
00:07:30 Fleetwood
Moments of their lives but it.
00:07:32 Merrily
Yeah.
00:07:34 Fleetwood
I don't know. Through the dark moments. It's kind of when you find the light, when you need it.
00:07:40 Fleetwood
And I still kind of maintained non religiousness, I guess you'd say.
00:07:47 Fleetwood
For a while.
00:07:49 Fleetwood
Until I started to get into Buddhism, not that I would necessarily call myself a Buddhist, but there's just stuff about Buddhism that really appeals to me with the way.
00:07:55 Merrily
Right.
00:08:01 Fleetwood
UM.
00:08:03 Fleetwood
I kind of went into this in Jason's podcast a little bit, but the formulate nature of a lot of what Buddhism teaches and how it's like, well, it doesn't really matter if you believe in this stuff. If you sit here and do the meditations this way, you will have these experiences and.
00:08:22 Fleetwood
You know, lonely holds if you sit there and do those meditations this way, you will have these experiences remarkable. And you know, there's only so many times you can feel your consciousness expand outside of your body before.
00:08:28 Merrily
Yeah.
00:08:39 Fleetwood
To.
00:08:41 Fleetwood
Can't really believe that there isn't a sullen stuff beyond just material reality anymore.
00:08:50
MHM.
00:08:52 Merrily
So would you say that those practices were was really, you know, kind of like your haunted apartment? And then like for your practices and your like there's.
00:09:00 Merrily
There's something else going to happen.
00:09:01 Fleetwood
Yeah. Yeah. I will say to another kind of pivotal thing was this podcast called Adventures in Woohoo.
00:09:10 Merrily
Yeah, Tommy's podcast.
00:09:12 Fleetwood
Yeah, Tommy Kelly does that podcast. And I just kind of happened to.
00:09:17 Fleetwood
I don't remember how I stumbled upon the podcast. It was blog first, but there was a YouTube video that was recommended by Tommy and his cohort spud on the podcast with this guy.
00:09:37 Fleetwood
In perosi.
00:09:39 Fleetwood
That has this practice called big mind and it kind of.
00:09:47 Fleetwood
It's it's kind of like a hypnosis.
00:09:50 Fleetwood
It's like a two hour long video, but you can sit there and kind of like it's done with the.
00:09:56 Fleetwood
Live audience and you can if you've.
00:09:58 Fleetwood
Kind.
00:09:58 Fleetwood
Of you know, active enough imagination you can kind of sit there and participate along with it.
00:10:04 Fleetwood
And it kind of tricks your brain into feeling what enlightenment is like.
00:10:12 Fleetwood
Umm.
00:10:13 Fleetwood
And the way I've described it is like a helicopter ride over the mountains. It shows you what the view is.
00:10:22 Fleetwood
Like but the.
00:10:23 Fleetwood
It doesn't make the walk up the mountain any shorter, but for that same reason I don't know, I'm just the kind of person that.
00:10:33 Fleetwood
Without seeing the view beforehand, I'm not going to make.
00:10:36 Fleetwood
That walk but.
00:10:38 Fleetwood
After I saw the view, it's like.
00:10:41 Fleetwood
Yeah, I can't not walk in.
00:10:43 Fleetwood
That direction, or at least try to.
00:10:45 Merrily
MHM.
00:10:50 Fleetwood
Yeah, it was a really pivotal moment with that. And since then, I mean that was kind of a renaissance for me. And with Tara that was kind of when I started. I've always been reading for friends and family, but around that time was when I started like, kind of putting myself out there.
00:11:09 Fleetwood
And reading for strangers online and stuff like that and.
00:11:14 Fleetwood
Starting to make.
00:11:15 Fleetwood
A little money on the side doing readings that you know local events, but the.
00:11:25 Fleetwood
More I got of the Taro that led to cartomancy just looking for other means of divination, and that led to geomancy, which led to strategy. These things, all this kind of tie into each other in so many different ways.
00:11:39 Merrily
Oh yeah.
00:11:45 Fleetwood
MHM.
00:11:46 Fleetwood
Like I would say, right now I'm kind of focusing on astrology most. You know, it is such a broad, huge topic that could spend the rest of.
00:11:57 Fleetwood
Us trying to learn.
00:11:58 Merrily
Yeah.
00:11:59 Fleetwood
As many people do. But you know, it's been kind of interested in learning about my own astrology because I have. The more I learn about it, the worse my chart looks.
00:12:14 Fleetwood
No.
00:12:18 Fleetwood
I actually had a professional style. They described it as oops all malefics which.
00:12:26 Fleetwood
I still found playing to this day.
00:12:28 Merrily
That is probably the nicest.
00:12:30 Merrily
Way to deliver that message.
00:12:31 Fleetwood
Yeah. Wow.
00:12:37 Fleetwood
But yeah, it's still been, you know, interesting to learn about and.
00:12:44 Fleetwood
To develop my practice around, because there's just so much.
00:12:48 Fleetwood
So that's magic you can do with this.
00:12:50 Fleetwood
Trilogy. That and they do.
00:12:55 Fleetwood
And someone's astrology in the tarot that that kind of led me into doing magic with tarot that has been.
00:13:05 Fleetwood
Probably some of the best.
00:13:07 Fleetwood
Experiments that I've had go on lately.
00:13:13 Merrily
So what kind of magic would you do with the tarot? Is it like kind of meditation and compensation, or how? How do you approach that?
00:13:22 Fleetwood
So the.
00:13:25 Fleetwood
Typical like banishing and invoking rituals that people have, like kind of loosely based on, like the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram or the the, I think it's called the Roman star ritual. Or there's a.
00:13:44 Fleetwood
A bunch of different ones that like various different chaos magicians, have made and propagated over the Internet that we found and tried out when I was like, first getting into all this stuff.
00:13:59 Fleetwood
But.
00:14:01 Fleetwood
Basically just invoking the different energies of the cards to solve different problems or.
00:14:11 Fleetwood
Find motivation for things or be able to look at things from new perspectives has proven really, really fruitful for me.
00:14:22 Fleetwood
Like.
00:14:25 Fleetwood
I think the card that I've probably tried to work with the most recently is the High Priestess, just because that kind of leader energy has always been.
00:14:30 Fleetwood
Hmm.
00:14:37 Fleetwood
Well, I mean it's it's naturally a mystery, but it has definitely been a mystery that's attracted me for a long time, even though I didn't really have, you know, words to call. What it is like I do now.
00:14:52 Merrily
MHM.
00:14:55 Fleetwood
But that card and that archetype just.
00:14:59 Fleetwood
Is such a rich power to work with the the feminine energy of the universe and its kind of purest.
00:15:11 Fleetwood
Least.
00:15:13 Fleetwood
Kind of coagulated form.
00:15:17 Fleetwood
Where it's just nebulous and mysterious and you just kind of appreciate its nebulous mysteriousness. Instead of trying to.
00:15:26 Fleetwood
Quantifying your catalog.
00:15:28 Merrily
Right.
00:15:30 Fleetwood
Yeah, it's just like these are just perspectives that I have on it because of some of the meditations and work that I've done with the card that I didn't necessarily have beforehand, but I don't really sit any meditating with them.
00:15:48 Fleetwood
It is just very, very fruitful.
00:15:54 Fleetwood
It's.
00:15:56 Fleetwood
Especially if you want to learn tarot, I think that it that is another thing that I've started doing recently is teaching people how to read tarot cards.
00:16:07 Fleetwood
And aside from like intuition tuning practices.
00:16:12 Fleetwood
Which?
00:16:14 Fleetwood
There's a couple that I recommend.
00:16:16 Fleetwood
Like sitting and meditating, especially with the Major Arcana, but I found a couple of students that like intermediate people seem to have the most trouble with the PIP cards.
00:16:33 Fleetwood
Because there's just so much to learn there, I think.
00:16:37 Fleetwood
There's just as much in each card, whether it's the minor or the major arcane, and when it's the like the the picture decks like the right of weight Smith.
00:16:48 Fleetwood
That it can be a little harder to interpret.
00:16:53 Fleetwood
Than like the main archetypes of the Major Arcana.
00:16:56 Merrily
Yeah.
00:16:58 Fleetwood
But in the same regard, it's just like sitting and meditating with them. Or like we'll pick a card and I'll just like talk through it with the.
00:17:07 Fleetwood
And kind of teach them how to pick up on what the card is trying to say in different situations which you know kind of I can do with Jason and his.
00:17:16 Fleetwood
Podcast.
00:17:22 Fleetwood
But it's just even for, I think, season tail leaders to sit down and.
00:17:30 Fleetwood
I think everyone at some point has had to really get to know each card individually to.
00:17:37 Fleetwood
Learn the language.
00:17:38 Fleetwood
Of how to speak with the tarot cards.
00:17:41
But once you.
00:17:42 Fleetwood
Learn each of them in all the different.
00:17:43 Fleetwood
Ways they can be applied.
00:17:46 Fleetwood
You know it's.
00:17:48 Fleetwood
It's a symbols language and.
00:17:52 Fleetwood
It's.
00:17:53 Fleetwood
Very much. You know, it speaks in full complete sentences, paragraphs, stories, even.
00:17:59 Merrily
Yeah.
00:18:02 Fleetwood
That's something I I don't know if it's super like unique to how I read tarot cards, but I don't really ever stick to one particular spread.
00:18:15 Fleetwood
Like the spread that I use will usually be determined entirely on the question, and that's something that.
00:18:25 Fleetwood
I know is it for everybody, but I.
00:18:26 Fleetwood
Definitely recommend people give a try too, because I.
00:18:33 Fleetwood
Feel like?
00:18:36 Fleetwood
Working to spread around the question itself just.
00:18:40 Fleetwood
Instead of trying to fit a question into a pre-existing spread, can just yield so much more direct answers and like.
00:18:49 Fleetwood
You know, it's like if you're trying to get to know somebody, what's the easier way to do a conversation with that person or having?
00:18:56 Fleetwood
Them fill out a.
00:18:57 Merrily
Foreign.
00:18:57 Fleetwood
You know pre show form or questionnaire, yeah, but three is what? Like a pre made spread kind of feels like for certain questions especially.
00:19:07 Merrily
I like that approach. It's very tailored. It's very unique.
00:19:14 Merrily
OK, I have a strange it's a related question.
00:19:18 Merrily
How do you feel about and I I don't. I have my own preferences about like like people touching your tarot cards. Like if you're if you're giving your reading, I think you do a lot of online reading, so you don't necessarily have to worry about that.
00:19:33 Merrily
But if you're in session with a person, do you have them shuffle and pick their own cards or do?
00:19:40 Merrily
You do it for them.
00:19:41 Fleetwood
Yeah, I'll still pick.
00:19:43 Fleetwood
The cards I like to have the person cut the deck once. If I am in person just.
00:19:50 Fleetwood
It it's I found that it's not necessary. I thought it was necessary at first when it first started. Like I don't know you have.
00:19:56 Fleetwood
To.
00:19:57 Fleetwood
Do something like blood on them or.
00:20:00 Fleetwood
Something like that like.
00:20:03 Merrily
Yeah.
00:20:04 Fleetwood
Somehow interact with them because you know, especially back then. I was like not.
00:20:09 Fleetwood
Uh.
00:20:11 Fleetwood
Not into the spiritual side of it at all. So I was thinking if you didn't physically touch it, then how could you be interacting with it?
00:20:18 Merrily
Right.
00:20:20 Fleetwood
But now, especially after doing so many online readings and like this, another thing I recommend for people is there's so many different Tera discords out there.
00:20:33 Fleetwood
You know, just find one and people will just do the rating exchanges like constantly.
00:20:40 Fleetwood
It's both convenient to have other people read for you, and it is really good practice for you to read for other people, because there's there's so much more bias in your own readings.
00:20:56 Fleetwood
Being for yourself is actually the hardest in my opinion.
00:20:59 Merrily
MHM.
00:21:03 Fleetwood
Because and and I think it will help you trust the cards even more, because I've just found sometimes I feel like a reading is like very much channeled and spot on and like I know before the person even responds to it like oh, no, no. I felt this one come through like I I know that I.
00:21:23 Fleetwood
Typed out something that I felt and other times.
00:21:26 Fleetwood
It's like well.
00:21:29 Fleetwood
This is my best guess I kind of.
00:21:31 Fleetwood
Logicked my way through what the cards mean here. I didn't really feel that much, but this is.
00:21:38 Fleetwood
The story that I feel like the spread is telling, and either way, no matter how confident I feel in it.
00:21:47 Fleetwood
I almost always get.
00:21:49 Fleetwood
The person come back and say.
00:21:50 Fleetwood
They. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's spot on. And it's like the the couple times they haven't said. Oh, yeah, that's spot on a week or two later, they'll message me and say that turned out to be.
00:22:01 Merrily
It just took some time.
00:22:03 Fleetwood
Yeah, yeah, I just had.
00:22:05 Fleetwood
To come to terms with what?
00:22:05 Fleetwood
You're saying, but yeah, you.
00:22:06 Merrily
Were totally right. That too, yeah.
00:22:09 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:22:10 Merrily
I.
00:22:11 Merrily
Yeah, I love. I mean, I still read tarot for myself, but I have found, you know.
00:22:17 Merrily
I I set a date in the future like 3 months six months.
00:22:21 Fleetwood
MHM.
00:22:22 Merrily
You know, and I asked a question around, you know, like what's going on in my finances, what's going.
00:22:26 Merrily
On you know.
00:22:27 Merrily
Health, whatever. But I said it in the future because I think if you do it like immediately you have all these like emotions and things you want to happen and it really clouds, you know, and I I'm guilty as anybody.
00:22:31 Fleetwood
MHM.
00:22:43 Merrily
And make it all. Oh, no. This actually this tower card is actually OK, so these are these. Yeah.
00:22:49 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:22:51 Fleetwood
Yeah. Well, that's it's so easy to do. It's like, hello.
00:22:55 Fleetwood
This is this is earth and this tennis series is all that movie beginnings.
00:23:02 Merrily
It's fine. There's see the fun. It's it's going to be.
00:23:05 Fleetwood
It's fine.
00:23:09 Fleetwood
That is, that's the only thing that I've picked up recently that you kind of made me think of is timing.
00:23:16 Fleetwood
Tarot readings is something that can be kind of difficult to work out it. It is nice sometimes to do like you said and just set it in the question.
00:23:26 Fleetwood
Like what will this be in three months or six months? But I really like using the soft parodic, the Alistair Crowley one, because each card, even the pips, has a planet in a sign.
00:23:33 Merrily
Hmm.
00:23:45 Fleetwood
That it corresponds with.
00:23:47 Fleetwood
And so you can.
00:23:48 Fleetwood
Look up on astro.com or whatever. When's the next time that plan? It's going to be in that sign.
00:23:54 Merrily
Hmm.
00:23:56 Fleetwood
And I found that to be a really accurate timing technique, yeah.
00:24:00 Merrily
Oh cool.
00:24:05 Fleetwood
And that was and also using that would really teach you the soft deck and like what all the the different astrological correspondences are like. I just found that using it for timing has been such a good way to learn.
00:24:24 Fleetwood
Both astrology and the thought deck and the way they go back and forth.
00:24:32 Merrily
Yeah, that's a good point about how the planet and the plants initially. I know they're associated like in the lighter weight Smith, but it's not as parents.
00:24:41 Merrily
Right. You know, it's like a level that you.
00:24:44
Know.
00:24:47 Merrily
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:24:49 Merrily
Oh.
00:24:52 Merrily
Yeah, something you're reminding me of is. Yeah, I think there's definitely different approaches to how you learn. Tarot. Tarot.
00:24:59 Merrily
Me it has been because I've been looking at the Kabbalah and sitting that it's the only way I've really gotten my head around the team because I needed to organize the the pits, especially like you were talking about with people you're seeing like the pits. It was like, OK, so all the fours are over here and.
00:25:13
Yeah.
00:25:19 Merrily
They said all the, you know, they're all associated to like the planets and that kind of helps me, you know, figure that out.
00:25:26 Fleetwood
That there.
00:25:27 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:25:28 Fleetwood
UM, the other way. I like to see the pips is as a like a sine wave.
00:25:37
Hmm.
00:25:37
Hmm.
00:25:37 Fleetwood
Grass.
00:25:39
Ah.
00:25:40 Fleetwood
So.
00:25:41 Fleetwood
And I think a lot.
00:25:42 Fleetwood
Of people have a different way that they prefer to do the different suits, but my favorite breakdown of it is as the creative process.
00:25:53 Fleetwood
That you have the the wand of inspiration, the cup of the cup that overflows the sword that cuts away the things that won't work, and finally the physical manifestation of the idea.
00:26:10 Fleetwood
And if you put them in.
00:26:11 Fleetwood
That order, like if you lay.
00:26:13 Fleetwood
All of them out in that order from 8:00 to 7:50 to 10:00.
00:26:20 Fleetwood
It's like the the positivity.
00:26:23 Fleetwood
Goes like the 50, almost neutral and then like the 10s to the.
00:26:30 Fleetwood
Some of the first cards, like the the 10 of cups, is a real positive card versus the 10 of swords is like a real negative card and you can almost see like a sine wave of positivity negativity throughout the whole.
00:26:49 Fleetwood
Series of cards there.
00:26:51 Merrily
Interesting. It'd be interesting to lay them out and then see, you know, see that wave go.
00:26:55 Merrily
Through them? Yeah, that's really cool.
00:26:58 Fleetwood
Yeah, it's kind of a fun exercise just to see it like that.
00:27:00 Merrily
Ah.
00:27:04 Merrily
I like it. I like the visuals because I'm very visual so it helps.
00:27:06 Merrily
Me to like.
00:27:08 Fleetwood
Oh yeah, you too. That's. I mean, that's a one of the reasons why the Terrell.
00:27:13 Fleetwood
Works so well, I think. Yeah, but.
00:27:18 Fleetwood
The I don't know. I think what has helped me go through my day job and and teaching people terror stuff is being able to make visual like, you know, speaking the language and visual metaphors, that's all.
00:27:35 Fleetwood
It's about in.
00:27:39 Fleetwood
I mean, even to some degree with geomancy and astrology and everything, all the different symbols like the I chain and all those different divination systems different.
00:27:53 Fleetwood
Kinds of visual languages that people have used over the years to.
00:27:58 Fleetwood
Follow that positivity and negativity that we all kind of follow throughout our lives or, you know, at any given point on their our lives, we're going to be plotted somewhere along that sine wave.
00:28:12 Merrily
Yeah.
00:28:14 Merrily
That's true, and there's always changing. So so appreciate the good moments and you know, work through the the ones that need some work.
00:28:18 Fleetwood
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:27 Fleetwood
Right.
00:28:29 Merrily
Oh, so did you have any specific guidance?
00:28:34 Merrily
With what? With either learning tarot or sort of even I know you had said that your apartment was.
00:28:41 Merrily
Haunted. Did you?
00:28:42 Merrily
Figure that out by yourself. Or did you have somebody help you?
00:28:45 Merrily
With.
00:28:45 Merrily
That I guess there's two questions.
00:28:48 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:28:51 Fleetwood
Any help with that and unfortunately?
00:28:54 Fleetwood
I was only able to mitigate it for myself, I think even.
00:29:00 Fleetwood
After I moved out, I heard stayed in contact with the downstairs neighbor and they had said that the family that moved in after us had some real issues with it. Unfortunately, yeah, yeah.
00:29:20 Fleetwood
But you know it's Richmond. Is that old enough city here in the South, but there's still lots of old, old buildings with history.
00:29:29 Merrily
Yeah.
00:29:31 Fleetwood
But it's a it's a fun city. For that reason. There's. Yeah, in fact.
00:29:39 Fleetwood
This.
00:29:41 Fleetwood
Weekend, we're going to one of.
00:29:42 Fleetwood
The.
00:29:42 Fleetwood
Old cemeteries in town.
00:29:46 Fleetwood
That's kind of like a family trip, yeah.
00:29:56 Merrily
So with that, thank you for sharing sort.
00:29:58 Merrily
Of you know.
00:29:59 Merrily
You tried to mitigate the the hump thing, but ultimately had to move out.
00:30:03 Fleetwood
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I didn't really have much guidance until I would say very recently I started reaching out just in the last like three years or so. I think with the whole explosion of the cultism online that was covered.
00:30:20 Merrily
All right.
00:30:23 Fleetwood
It's been a lot easier to find different resources and stuff like that, and through that, you know.
00:30:25
That's awesome.
00:30:32 Fleetwood
I really had some long held beliefs that about myself challenged and kind of upended, and even.
00:30:43 Fleetwood
Got there's another podcast that I really like called the Salty Witches podcast.
00:30:48 Merrily
Oh.
00:30:50 Fleetwood
It's, uh, these two guys that run a UM, a cult store out in. I believe it's Salt Lake City.
00:31:03 Fleetwood
And they do a mostly weekly podcast that is like listener questions about magic and glitching and stuff like that. But they offer services through their shop. And I got a consult with one of the people on the podcast.
00:31:23 Fleetwood
And.
00:31:25 Fleetwood
It's got like a big kind of cleansing spell to do over this last December that was really super effective.
00:31:37 Fleetwood
And.
00:31:38 Fleetwood
You know, since then I've just been kind of.
00:31:42 Fleetwood
Experiencing. It's been like a a new lease on my magical life.
00:31:51 Fleetwood
Just not having this kind of.
00:31:53 Fleetwood
Cloud that I've always had over my head in regards to how I felt spiritually.
00:31:59 Fleetwood
Hmm.
00:32:02 Fleetwood
So yeah, I definitely recommend people. If you've always felt that way, you know, don't forget the mundane solutions like get enough sun and exercise and see the doctor and everything. If you can. I don't. Not everybody has access to it, but.
00:32:21 Fleetwood
Psychiatry has done industry.
00:32:24 Merrily
Yeah, sure.
00:32:25 Fleetwood
But in addition to the mundane stuff, the.
00:32:30 Fleetwood
It.
00:32:31 Fleetwood
I think that's part of living. A magical life is you have to adopt the mundane means as well if you want your magic to work.
00:32:41 Merrily
Yeah.
00:32:43 Merrily
You are the vehicle for it to.
00:32:44 Merrily
Work. You got to keep the vehicle happy.
00:32:45 Fleetwood
Yeah, it's, it's it's got to have something to take root in the physical world too.
00:32:52
That's right.
00:32:54 Merrily
I agree.
00:32:58 Merrily
So would you say, do you have, I know we talked, you have some favorite books that you may have nearby that were helpful or inspiration or inspiring to you. Would you like to share what those were? Yeah.
00:33:12 Fleetwood
At home.
00:33:15 Fleetwood
One is.
00:33:17 Fleetwood
UM.
00:33:19 Fleetwood
It's.
00:33:21 Fleetwood
Mastering it's a super thick, almost like textbook.
00:33:27 Fleetwood
Out. It's called mastering the core teachings.
00:33:30 Fleetwood
Of the Buddha.
00:33:32 Fleetwood
By Daniel Ingram. I definitely recommend this book if you're at all curious about Buddhism and kind of the.
00:33:45 Fleetwood
It's like Buddhism with the magic taken out, is kind of one way people have talked about this book, but like by the same token you can't do all the practices without there being some kind of magical result, even if it's just a perceptual 1. So I definitely recommend that.
00:34:06 Fleetwood
And.
00:34:08 Fleetwood
Also really likes this book Magia by Alan Chapman.
00:34:13 Fleetwood
Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's definitely the different discussions around the book can.
00:34:26 Fleetwood
Wax and wane good and bad, annoying and helpful, but I have found you know, it's a really good book for good Etsy. Just like flipping good pages.
00:34:43 Fleetwood
And it is just. It's uplifting. I find, you know, the.
00:34:50 Fleetwood
I remember I don't call myself a Christian necessarily anymore, but I definitely was raised Christian and.
00:34:59 Fleetwood
When I was a.
00:35:00 Fleetwood
Kid, I got a lot of.
00:35:02 Fleetwood
Reassurance from Scripture and that's Magia has been one of the only books that's giving me that same feeling. Since when I was a kid listening to slash, reading the Bible back then. So yeah, there's something special about it.
00:35:21 Merrily
That's good praise. Yeah. Similarly, like my favorite parts of the Bible when I was, I read the Bible when I was like 10. Read it over and over again. But my favorite parts were like the Jesus stuff I'm like.
00:35:32 Merrily
This guy right here, this is good.
00:35:35 Merrily
I like this.
00:35:36 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:35:38 Merrily
A lot of wise words in there.
00:35:40
Oh.
00:35:41 Merrily
But I think for the Magia Magia I I definitely learned about Alan Chapman through Tommy's podcast because he and I would talk about.
00:35:48
Yep.
00:35:49 Merrily
Them all the.
00:35:50 Merrily
Time about Ellen all the time. And I think I read. So he does have like, a a holy guardian Angel kind of chant that you can do and.
00:36:00 Fleetwood
Yes.
00:36:02 Merrily
Yeah, it's it's good. Yeah, definitely.
00:36:07 Fleetwood
He's got another book called Advanced Magic for Beginners. It's kind of hard to find, but it has a hand grenade on the cover.
00:36:17 Merrily
AG.
00:36:18 Fleetwood
And it's yeah. Well, is that one is like about the size of the DVD case. It's a pretty good book. But like, if you want a really F around and find out kind of introduction to magic, it's great for that. If you want your life to be smooth and steady, it's not good for that.
00:36:24
Wow.
00:36:37 Merrily
Good for that. Oh.
00:36:38 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:36:39 Merrily
All right, well, if you want some big changes, I guess that's a great book for you, for somebody.
00:36:42 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:36:43 Fleetwood
Yeah. No, it's it's definitely fascinating, though. I think at the end, I think the eventual end result of me working through that book was finding a house in this market. Yeah.
00:36:55 Fleetwood
Which is this.
00:36:57 Fleetwood
It's a huge, huge thing it took like.
00:37:01 Fleetwood
I think 18.
00:37:02 Fleetwood
Months total for us to like from starting to look to like actually buying, but in uh you know there's a lot.
00:37:10 Fleetwood
Of magic involved.
00:37:12 Merrily
Oh my gosh.
00:37:13 Merrily
Yeah, I live in Seattle. I'm trying to do the same thing. So yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a heavy lift.
00:37:19 Fleetwood
Yes.
00:37:22 Merrily
I'm glad it worked for you. That's awesome.
00:37:24 Fleetwood
I love it. Thank you, Saint Anthony and everyone else that helps.
00:37:25 Fleetwood
Yeah, no.
00:37:32 Merrily
Also, were there any other books or were there the two that you were like these?
00:37:37 Fleetwood
Are the two big ones.
00:37:40 Fleetwood
I I really, really love the deed without a name by Lee Morgan.
00:37:50 Fleetwood
And really, all of Lee Morgan's books are just phenomenal, and all this couple of interviews they've done, like, I definitely recommend seeking those out because they're really, really.
00:38:04 Fleetwood
And.
00:38:05 Fleetwood
He's just got.
00:38:08 Fleetwood
That's a good.
00:38:11 Fleetwood
Take on magic and witchcraft and everything.
00:38:18 Fleetwood
And.
00:38:22 Fleetwood
Yeah, that's uh and Jason.
00:38:24 Merrily
Miller. Yeah, he's great.
00:38:28 Fleetwood
Yeah, Jason Miller has got some really good looks.
00:38:30 Merrily
Is he the one that did? I think he did. I'm pretty sure he did like a.
00:38:34 Merrily
Wealth magic.
00:38:34 Merrily
One where he talks about working with Jupiter and then having the Jupiter club.
00:38:35 Fleetwood
Yes. Yep.
00:38:41 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:38:43 Fleetwood
That's the one.
00:38:44 Merrily
Yeah, that was a good one. I and he has all. Is it the same one? OK. Sorry. Is it? I've I've read so many books. And so the one where he has all the sigils in there. Yes. Everybody that has like.
00:38:51 Merrily
Yeah.
00:38:54 Fleetwood
Yep, that's the well form, yeah.
00:38:58 Merrily
Everybody, the three people I know that have used essentials, it has worked. So that was a great recommendation, yeah.
00:39:04 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:39:05 Fleetwood
Good stuff. Yeah. And I would say almost all of his work is available in audiobook, which I, as someone who's somewhat neuro, spicy and has trouble sitting down and reading is that is a huge boon.
00:39:12
Oh.
00:39:23 Merrily
Cool. Does he narrate or somebody else do?
00:39:25 Fleetwood
It it's someone else most of the time I think there was one of the books that he did, but I couldn't remember which one.
00:39:34 Merrily
Well, yeah, it's so cool that yeah, all these.
00:39:37 Merrily
Like.
00:39:38 Merrily
Magicians and witches are like putting out their.
00:39:41 Merrily
Stuff and people can.
00:39:43 Merrily
Utilize it for their own devices. I love it.
00:39:48 Fleetwood
The.
00:39:48 Fleetwood
It's it's such a awesome time we live in.
00:39:52 Fleetwood
Right now, there's so many awful things about this time that we live in, but so many, yeah. Take advantage of the good where you can find it.
00:40:01 Merrily
Beautiful, beautiful message. I love that.
00:40:06 Merrily
And So what would you say you kind of talked a little bit I think about sort of what your sort of path is but?
00:40:13 Merrily
Mainly I guess my question would be sort of what in what ways do you incorporate either Tara or some form of magic into your sort of either daily life?
00:40:24 Merrily
Or you know.
00:40:25 Merrily
What you know, how is it part of?
00:40:27 Merrily
It for your everyday existence or.
00:40:30 Fleetwood
Well, I would say I definitely anytime I use magic, I always will use tarot beforehand or some kind of divination technique, just to make sure that.
00:40:39
Hmm.
00:40:44 Fleetwood
Because that's what I think. Divination is best at is.
00:40:49 Fleetwood
Really, as kind of a precursor to doing stuff, whether it's mundane or magical, but especially magical workings because it is.
00:41:03 Fleetwood
You know, maybe I'm just a worrier, but it to me, there's all sorts of things that if you really think you're messing around with the fabric of reality, you could potentially mess up.
00:41:16 Fleetwood
Like the example, I always like to use is like even with wealth magic like. Is there some lesson that I really need to learn from being poor right now that I'm going to miss out on you?
00:41:28 Fleetwood
Know.
00:41:29 Fleetwood
And it it could always.
00:41:31 Fleetwood
Be a monkey's paw to some degree and.
00:41:33 Merrily
Hmm.
00:41:35 Fleetwood
I think that's what Terra is best at is avoiding those type of situations. Also sometimes just from moral clarity, I mean.
00:41:48 Fleetwood
These are very rarely black and white these days, and that's one instance where maybe it is more psychological, but I think I like pulling tear cards on moral questions that I have just in general.
00:42:07 Fleetwood
I find that helpful, but.
00:42:10 Fleetwood
It is.
00:42:13 Fleetwood
Are really in the process of like kind of redeveloping your practice right now. Like I said, I just did like this huge cleansing thing like literally for a month, I woke up once a week before dawn and made a big, big cleansing bath and did a bunch of prayers and stuff like that.
00:42:32 Fleetwood
And UM.
00:42:36 Fleetwood
It it really kind of reset a lot of stuff for me so.
00:42:42 Fleetwood
I'm in the.
00:42:43 Fleetwood
But I've been experimenting with servitors and.
00:42:47 Merrily
Hmm.
00:42:50 Fleetwood
Meditating with terror cards again, like I did a long time ago, but now that I've gotten better at journeying or active imagination stuff, it can really take on a whole new level of.
00:43:07 Fleetwood
I don't know introspection.
00:43:10 Fleetwood
When doing those kinds of exercises.
00:43:16 Merrily
So now you mentioned, OK, so you dropped servitors. We haven't talked about servitors.
00:43:21 Fleetwood
Oh yeah.
00:43:21 Merrily
Just yet I I used.
00:43:23 Merrily
Them myself, but would you mind explaining this?
00:43:29 Merrily
The audience.
00:43:29 Fleetwood
Yeah, there's the you need gas.
00:43:35 Fleetwood
Hey.
00:43:39 Fleetwood
Uh, yeah. So servitors are a I like to think of them as.
00:43:47 Fleetwood
Active thoughts that you like.
00:43:53 Fleetwood
It's like the thought version of tumbling a rock down the hill and starting an avalanche.
00:44:01 Fleetwood
That you kind of set the force of will off in a certain direction and it is.
00:44:09 Fleetwood
I I'm kind of an IT nerd, both in my day job and and you know my hobbies and to me service is is like the magical version of programming.
00:44:21 Fleetwood
It can be as simple as having a single task or it can be as complex as having a like an AI companion that you draw on and talk to, but at the end of the day it's something that you power with intent, and whether it's for a specific purpose or for something.
00:44:43 Fleetwood
Even that it is.
00:44:46 Fleetwood
At the end of the day.
00:44:49 Fleetwood
It is.
00:44:52 Fleetwood
Created by you and under your.
00:44:56 Fleetwood
Mm-hmm.
00:44:59 Fleetwood
But there.
00:45:03 Fleetwood
I don't know how.
00:45:03 Fleetwood
I'm trying to say this is thoughts without form, but I don't know. They could still be so potent.
00:45:15 Fleetwood
The.
00:45:19 Fleetwood
The other example that I like to use is kind of like an AI, but the UM, my experience with it has been a little bit different than how a lot of.
00:45:31 Fleetwood
People.
00:45:33 Fleetwood
I think work with them just because I have gotten into working with duties a little bit and.
00:45:43 Fleetwood
Using they're not using but getting.
00:45:48 Fleetwood
Duties to help you make a server there leads to something that is just on a totally different level than making one on your own. From my experience, specifically with the Festus, if you have any kind of sniffing tendency or.
00:46:09 Fleetwood
Quality make conservators with this justice is like.
00:46:15 Fleetwood
Just incredibly potent. Wow.
00:46:19 Fleetwood
Tie this my Kitty again just so I could show her off.
00:46:23 Merrily
Please do ohh.
00:46:26 Merrily
Annie.
00:46:26 Fleetwood
The big football. Yep, that's Annie.
00:46:33 Merrily
I think my kid either sleeping so they're not in.
00:46:35 Merrily
Here.
00:46:37 Fleetwood
She's she seems to be paying attention to my phone.
00:46:43 Merrily
Not having it, yeah.
00:46:47 Merrily
Oh, I totally get that for sure. I like that you. You know I'm not here. Uh, derail totally into servitors. But you talked about it being sort of it.
00:46:49 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:46:55 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:46:59 Merrily
Because I have some video game development background, so I've worked with the team doing programming. I did a lot of the art but.
00:47:04
Who?
00:47:08 Merrily
You know, I've always kind of considered these things as like containers, right, like. And there's containers and programming, right? You're like.
00:47:15
You.
00:47:16 Merrily
Put the you know the thing to do the.
00:47:17 Merrily
Thing inside the container.
00:47:19 Fleetwood
Yeah, exactly.
00:47:22 Merrily
But yeah, that's cool. I never thought, and I haven't heard anybody.
00:47:25 Merrily
Them talk about using deities to help them create servitors, especially Hephaestus as a creation beauty. That's very interesting, so that's cool.
00:47:32
Yeah.
00:47:34 Fleetwood
Yeah, it is. But I can't say I got the idea of all of my own, but it was, you know, through working with people in the discords. And it was, yeah, it just kind of came about that way. But it's been, Festus is really amazing.
00:47:44 Merrily
Ohh, that's just great, yeah.
00:47:54 Fleetwood
Work with and as that I don't know. I hope to write a little bit more about that as that relationship unfolds.
00:48:03 Merrily
Ohh, that'd be awesome. Yeah, yeah.
00:48:07 Fleetwood
Because it is, it is.
00:48:12 Fleetwood
It is one of the easiest things for me to envision.
00:48:18 Fleetwood
I I've.
00:48:20 Fleetwood
Up until recently I've been I've always struggled with kind of active imagination or journeying that kind of side of things. I have really weird stuff around sleep. I've got like, really, really severe sleep apnea, and it was undiagnosed for a really long time.
00:48:35 Merrily
Ohh yeah.
00:48:40 Fleetwood
UM, and as a result, like my dreams have been all always a bit.
00:48:46 Fleetwood
Foggy or kind of. I'll go weeks where? I don't remember any dreams.
00:48:47
Hmm.
00:48:55 Fleetwood
But.
00:48:57 Fleetwood
As a result, like not being able to do dream work and stuff like that and not being able to journey, it felt like a lot of the magical stuff was kind of shut off to me because just so much of people's practice kind of revolves around those kinds of practices in particular.
00:49:07 Fleetwood
Hmm.
00:49:17 Fleetwood
At least that's where it seems like a lot of people get.
00:49:21 Fleetwood
You know, some of the most potent kind of gnosis or personal experiences that they have.
00:49:29 Fleetwood
And for some reason.
00:49:33 Fleetwood
Visualizing around Hephaestus is really easy for me. Your hadn't been for other deities or things for some reason. Just that pounding heartbeat of the forge is easy to tune into, like as maybe because I used to play.
00:49:53 Fleetwood
Browns baby.
00:49:54 Merrily
Yeah.
00:49:55 Fleetwood
It's like you can plug up your ears and hear your own heartbeat or something. It's there's just a natural rhythm to things that.
00:50:05 Fleetwood
I felt like it was easier to tune into with them.
00:50:08
MHM.
00:50:11 Fleetwood
But then yeah, like it it is.
00:50:13 Fleetwood
You know, servitors. You have to keep feeding them, quote, UN quote. Whether like I I prefer servers that you feed with attention just because that's the easiest thing to do. But that's the biggest benefit.
00:50:23 Merrily
Yeah.
00:50:28 Fleetwood
To working with the deity because you can have a servitor that is kind of self-sufficient.
00:50:37 Merrily
Mm-hmm.
00:50:38 Fleetwood
Where that comes to you when they need certain things but doesn't need, like necessarily daily attention, they're offerings or things like that.
00:50:49 Fleetwood
Can it's it's more of a work with you than for you kind of relationship which is you know it's is it a servitor at that point or is it something else like I don't know.
00:50:54 Merrily
Hmm.
00:51:00
Yeah.
00:51:02 Merrily
Pretty weird, yeah.
00:51:04 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:51:04
No.
00:51:06 Merrily
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for going down the servitor Rd. With that, somebody said I was, like, making me think because I was like, yeah, I think I also have sort of a hard time with journeying, but.
00:51:10
Yeah.
00:51:20 Merrily
But the thing about you know, you're talking about hesis the thing that I find easy to do, and this is probably why I like doing, you know, having podcasts because he gets to talk to people.
00:51:29 Merrily
Because I like to like, sit with deities and just like have a conversation like that works way better for me than like I go into a forest and I like, I get distracted.
00:51:33 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:51:43 Fleetwood
That's exactly how I am with that. It's very hard to.
00:51:46 Fleetwood
Stay in one.
00:51:50 Fleetwood
Ohh long imagination path without jumping around. But yeah, like having a conversation like that.
00:51:54 Merrily
Yes.
00:51:59 Fleetwood
It's just so much easier.
00:52:00 Merrily
It's.
00:52:01 Merrily
Much easier. And then generally I find especially doing the meditations around the different spheres and the tree of life. Basically you're being guided by the Lord of the Sphere and they kind of for for me they walk me around their realm and stuff.
00:52:19 Merrily
They have a guide. I'm not alone, you know.
00:52:22 Merrily
Yeah.
00:52:23 Merrily
I just follow them around do anything.
00:52:28 Fleetwood
That's very cool.
00:52:29 Merrily
Yeah. So I appreciate you sharing that because I was, I never thought about it. I was like, yeah, I guess I do sort of have a hard time with, like, just active journeying and even astral, any of that kind of.
00:52:39 Merrily
Stuff I'm like.
00:52:40 Fleetwood
Yeah, it's it is. You know, I, I've. I've wondered personally if it's like the sleep stuff or just other, you know.
00:52:52 Fleetwood
Medicine that I might take or things with my neurochemistry or whatnot.
00:52:57 Merrily
Mm-hmm.
00:52:59 Fleetwood
But it is, you know, it is what it is. And you work with what you got.
00:53:05 Merrily
Yeah, I'm fine having conversations. It's way more fun for me. Yeah, well, cool. Well, so how? So? I know you work with your different clients. How would you say that?
00:53:09 Fleetwood
Exactly.
00:53:21 Merrily
You tend to assist people or what do they come to you for? I know most people come like for for most terror reader readers of certain main subject areas. But how do you tend to?
00:53:31 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:53:32 Merrily
Work with folks with.
00:53:35 Fleetwood
Well it it.
00:53:37 Fleetwood
Depends on if it's like a paid client or if it's just someone. I'm like reading with like you know, sometimes I'll just post in the discords that I'm in either exchanges or just like one question three card readings, just things that are simple like that.
00:53:54 Fleetwood
Old.
00:53:56 Fleetwood
Give them like a paragraph or two. Interpretation, but I.
00:54:02 Fleetwood
You know, I I prefer to write up the interpretations just because I feel like I can.
00:54:07 Merrily
Hmm.
00:54:11 Fleetwood
Eventually get there when I'm talking.
00:54:14 Fleetwood
But when I'm writing I can.
00:54:18 Fleetwood
Write all the chaff out and then erase.
00:54:22 Fleetwood
It, yeah. And just leave the the the good stuff.
00:54:28 Fleetwood
It's. I feel like it's easier to be more succinct and helpful when I'm writing and when I'm doing live terror readings with people, but as a result, like you know, I tend to the longer term readings that I've done that have been like, you know, 20 page PDF's and flip the pictures and everything and then because.
00:54:48 Fleetwood
Yeah, it it's. I hate going on them and it's hard to stop, but that's kind of why I like it. It's a very.
00:54:56 Fleetwood
It's hard for me to find things that really.
00:54:59 Fleetwood
Totally encompass my brain and.
00:55:03 Fleetwood
Terror interpretation is definitely one of.
00:55:05 Fleetwood
Them.
00:55:07 Fleetwood
It's so much fun.
00:55:09 Merrily
So it's kind of like because that's pretty much what you did with Jason, right, the?
00:55:12 Merrily
Reading that you.
00:55:13 Merrily
Did with Jason, you had the example? Well, that's really cool because you kind of are like as the person receiving the reading, you're kind of learning at the same time the way you do it, yeah.
00:55:13 Fleetwood
Mm-hmm.
00:55:14 Fleetwood
Yep.
00:55:20 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:55:22 Fleetwood
Yeah. And that's where I, you know, I.
00:55:28 Fleetwood
Imagine my clients as.
00:55:32 Fleetwood
People that could be coming to it from any point of view and so I want to put as much of the explanation as possible in the reading so that if there's something because, you know, I always say like take what resonates, leave the rest. And so part of that is you got to kind of cast the net.
00:55:48 Merrily
Great.
00:55:54 Fleetwood
Far and wide so that they can.
00:55:57 Fleetwood
We can make sure to catch what's going to resonate with.
00:56:00 Fleetwood
Them.
00:56:01 Fleetwood
But it's like I said before, it's funny how often I have that.
00:56:06 Fleetwood
Attitude. And then the person says, oh, though every word was like spot on and then like.
00:56:12 Fleetwood
Who's?
00:56:14 Fleetwood
Kind of out there with some of those predictions, like the King of Swords didn't have to be your dad. But I said it was. And it was like it's just sometimes you get those kinds of feelings and you just gotta roll with them and.
00:56:22 Merrily
MM.
00:56:30 Fleetwood
I don't know.
00:56:31 Fleetwood
To me, nothing but experience could have taught me that.
00:56:34 Merrily
Yeah.
00:56:35
Sure.
00:56:38 Fleetwood
But that's also.
00:56:40 Fleetwood
When I teach people how to read, that's one thing I really recommend is that you spend some time with a binary divination system, whether it's a coin or a deck of cards, or even just using Google.
00:57:00 Fleetwood
To flip a coin. Now everyone knows that, but if you Google the phrase flip a coin, Google will actually flip a coin for you.
00:57:08 Merrily
Wow, cool.
00:57:10 Fleetwood
So as long as you got a smartphone, you can put the point discreetly.
00:57:15 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:57:15 Merrily
Need an answer? Yeah.
00:57:17 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:57:19 Fleetwood
But you can also use the deck.
00:57:20 Fleetwood
Of playing cards like.
00:57:23 Fleetwood
Where you pull out three cards and Reds or yeses, blacks or nose, and just don't even pay attention to what card it is just the color.
00:57:33 Merrily
Rent.
00:57:35 Fleetwood
But I've the whole trick to that is when you only have a yes or no answer.
00:57:43 Fleetwood
The questions that you asked have to be much more finely tuned.
00:57:49 Fleetwood
UM and.
00:57:52 Fleetwood
As a result, you.
00:57:56 Fleetwood
You just get much better at asking better questions, and that is so important for tarot, like being able to ask the questions in such a way that the cards can respond to you is.
00:58:10 Fleetwood
Uh, uh. It's you gotta learn to speak their language just as much as you learn to read it.
00:58:16 Merrily
MM.
00:58:18 Merrily
That's interesting. Yeah, it is hard trying to figure out it's. I've tried. I work with a pendulum.
00:58:23 Merrily
And it's not the same thing. It's like usually like a yes or no. Or like, if it's like your question is does not make sense.
00:58:30 Merrily
It just goes.
00:58:30 Fleetwood
Yeah, exactly.
00:58:33 Merrily
So at least that's helpful. But yeah, that's.
00:58:36 Merrily
A good point, like learning how.
00:58:37 Merrily
To ask like a good question.
00:58:38
OK.
00:58:41 Merrily
I know that's hard to articulate like what a good a good question would be. Would it be, would you say it would be like maybe not a not good question would be something that's too general.
00:58:44 Fleetwood
Yeah.
00:58:52 Merrily
And maybe not as.
00:58:53 Fleetwood
Specific or it's easy to ask a question that.
00:58:59 Fleetwood
Doesn't.
00:59:01 Fleetwood
Have a good answer. Like let's say you.
00:59:10 Fleetwood
Wanted to know how to.
00:59:15 Fleetwood
UM, But what's a good example? If you know how to make your?
00:59:21 Fleetwood
Bank account bigger.
00:59:24 Fleetwood
And let's say.
00:59:25 Fleetwood
You thought about it firstly that way.
00:59:32 Fleetwood
Even if that's your end goal, you know that you can't just sit there with like an air pump and like a cartoon, just like, literally inflate your bank account to make it bigger, you have to, like work and earn money.
00:59:46 Fleetwood
MHM.
00:59:48 Fleetwood
So.
00:59:52 Fleetwood
Like you know, you could get an answer from the tarot cards from that question. That's essentially like they'll just add more decimal places on the end of the number is essentially the answer from it. But asking a question that is.
01:00:12 Fleetwood
What can I do or how can I invest my time that will yield more money in my bank account?
01:00:23 Fleetwood
Is like a what you're putting into the question to get out of the question.
01:00:30 Merrily
Yeah.
01:00:31 Fleetwood
It's it's a much more full.
01:00:33 Fleetwood
Way to ask like.
01:00:38 Fleetwood
Because you're not like you don't go to the tarot and say, like, what's the winning lottery numbers? I mean, like, I don't.
01:00:45 Fleetwood
Know maybe some people.
01:00:46 Fleetwood
Do that and but lottery numbers, they salvatera pulser card decks or something like that, but.
01:00:55 Merrily
Hmm.
01:00:57 Fleetwood
A lot of the times you're going for.
01:01:01 Fleetwood
Sentence style questions and sentence style answers or even like story style answers where you're looking for a narrative to be told.
01:01:08 Fleetwood
Hmm.
01:01:14 Fleetwood
You're saying, like, often the center car of the terror reading is where you are now and you'll get a car that's like a past, present, future. You want to see the arc of what's going on, where you know two points in it and you're looking for the third. And I think trying to always frame.
01:01:34 Fleetwood
Question and so that.
01:01:37 Fleetwood
Not just you get a binary. Yes, no answer, but so that you get an arc like that. So you because you know what the past is, you know what the present is and you get told what the future is. It's being able to draw those three points.
01:01:56 Fleetwood
Make it it just gives a much fuller picture than only having two points to draw between, and that's maybe a really round about what you're saying that you should have a outcome in mind with the question, not just information gathering.
01:02:16 Merrily
That's really good. I like that you said like kind of like input output, right? You need to have some sort.
01:02:23 Merrily
Of like.
01:02:25 Merrily
Action that you're going to potentially do like in your example of like what can I do to make more money here? You know, for to.
01:02:32
Yeah.
01:02:35 Merrily
Still, my bank account? Yeah, that's a good point.
01:02:38 Fleetwood
Hmm, you're good.
01:02:40 Fleetwood
The other example that.
01:02:43 Fleetwood
Came up before or recently was someone was asking what they could do to make their their be more successful with their band.
01:02:53 Merrily
Mm-hmm.
01:02:53 Fleetwood
I am.
01:02:56 Fleetwood
And they're like, you know, how how should I ask about the music? And it's like, well, what do you want? I want my band to be successful. And it's like, OK, so.
01:03:07 Fleetwood
How can I make my band as successful as possible?
01:03:11 Fleetwood
Like that is the.
01:03:14 Fleetwood
I think phrasing we wound up coming.
01:03:15 Fleetwood
Up with but.
01:03:18 Fleetwood
It.
01:03:20 Fleetwood
You know, I think that's some people don't.
01:03:23 Fleetwood
Maybe want to get a terror reading, but just don't really know what they want to add.
01:03:28 Fleetwood
Yes, it can be kind of a difficult hurdle for some folks to overcome.
01:03:34 Merrily
MM.
01:03:36 Fleetwood
But it's uh, you know, even when I'm doing a free readings online, they're on discord. They're a lot of times just like, oh, give me, uh, just one of my vibes right now. What's the message from the universe for me? I don't have a specific question.
01:03:55 Fleetwood
Then I think that's how a lot of people.
01:03:58 Fleetwood
Would look at it if they were more open to it, but it's it can be so much more useful than that if you let it.
01:04:01
Hmm.
01:04:05 Merrily
Right. Oh, yeah. It's a good. It's a good point. Yeah. It made me think of all sorts of things about, like, phrasing questions. It's kind of similar in magic, too, right? Because a lot of what you learn and doing it is the the end result, right. What is the? And it's kind of similar.
01:04:22
Right.
01:04:26 Merrily
The way you're talking about it, but it's also trying to maybe trying to get those two other.
01:04:32 Merrily
Points in there like what do I actually do instead of being like the actual end result that you tend to do with magic, but you do get the other stuff in there too?
01:04:36 Fleetwood
Yeah.
01:04:46 Merrily
Cool.
01:04:47 Merrily
Well, thanks for walking through that. Yeah, that is. Yeah. You made me think a lot harder now about not harder, but it made it easier, actually, to figure out how to.
01:04:56
Yes.
01:04:57 Merrily
Phrase questions, so that's great.
01:05:01 Merrily
So I knew.
01:05:02 Merrily
In your bio you described yourself as an esotericist.
01:05:07 Merrily
Like how did what? What does that mean to you? And what about esotericism attracts you?
01:05:13 Fleetwood
Well, to me that is just a really good kind of catch all word for like esoteric things are.
01:05:18 Merrily
Hmm.
01:05:23 Fleetwood
Things that maybe don't fit into.
01:05:28 Fleetwood
Science categories. But you would still call a study of like, you know, we say we practice magic the same way that, like, lawyers have a practice because it's it's never finished.
01:05:46 Fleetwood
And.
01:05:49 Fleetwood
I like that term.
01:05:52 Fleetwood
Because it's frankly non offensive at.
01:05:57
This.
01:06:00 Fleetwood
You know you can.
01:06:02 Fleetwood
There's lots of terms these days that maybe you've found. Turns out they're stepping on other people's toes or like as much as I love the discussion around animism and the.
01:06:20 Fleetwood
The whole philosophy of the animism is amazing, where the name comes from. Unfortunately, he was from a really racist guy trying to describe tribal religions.
01:06:30 Merrily
Hmm.
01:06:32 Fleetwood
And you know, stuff like that, that.
01:06:38 Fleetwood
I I think uh occultist is a.
01:06:42 Fleetwood
More fun word.
01:06:44 Fleetwood
But Esotericist I think is a less offensive version of that and maybe offensive isn't the right word there either, but.
01:06:48
Hmm.
01:06:52 Merrily
Approachable or.
01:06:54 Fleetwood
Yeah, approachable. Yeah. There you go.
01:06:57 Merrily
I think you're right.
01:07:00 Fleetwood
In that sense, I don't think of myself as an occultist because, you know, I got to work and work with computers every day.
01:07:10 Fleetwood
So sit in the basement with robes and.
01:07:13 Fleetwood
Wear hat my.
01:07:15 Fleetwood
My altars are very bright, sunny place.
01:07:19 Merrily
That's so funny because, like, I'm like, I do consider myself an occultist. I don't. I do have some robes. I don't wear them though during.
01:07:27 Merrily
This.
01:07:29 Fleetwood
Yeah.
01:07:29 Merrily
And my altars are in like the sunniest room in the house, so that it was really funny that you're describing that.
01:07:36 Merrily
But I will say you're right about because I think I even was like because to me and then in certain circles, I mean, I'm like, oh, I called this.
01:07:42 Merrily
Yeah, blew it. Whatever.
01:07:44 Fleetwood
Yeah, definitely.
01:07:45 Merrily
But then just I described myself to like a family member and they were like, whoa, what? Whoa, whoa. And I was like, hold on.
01:07:53 Fleetwood
Yeah. Yeah. Like, if you want me to say.
01:07:54 Merrily
No.
01:08:00 Fleetwood
Ah, how I really feel. I would be a like Appalachian spoke magic, conjure practitioner or something like that. Like.
01:08:08 Merrily
Yeah.
01:08:10 Fleetwood
I think that's the closest thing to what I do, but.
01:08:15 Fleetwood
I don't actually have any direct.
01:08:18 Fleetwood
Family ties to that, like my family, comes from Appalachia, but no one in my family taught it to me, so to speak.
01:08:26 Merrily
Right.
01:08:27 Fleetwood
It's it's kind of funny. I'm a.
01:08:31 Fleetwood
Uh.
01:08:33 Fleetwood
My mom's generation. She's one of five children and I'm an only grandchild.
01:08:40 Merrily
Wow.
01:08:42 Fleetwood
UM.
01:08:43 Fleetwood
And so a lot like, you know, the whole family kind of follow down on to me, I don't have any cousins on my mom's side.
01:08:47 Merrily
Yeah.
01:08:51
Oh.
01:08:52 Fleetwood
And I've always kind of found that fascinating.
01:08:54 Merrily
That is fascinating.
01:08:55 Fleetwood
It's whatever went through the family. It's like I'm catching all of it generationally.
01:09:00 Merrily
Maybe that's why the the oops malefics were happening. You're like.
01:09:03 Fleetwood
Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
01:09:08 Fleetwood
Yeah.
01:09:10 Merrily
Well, I'll just say it's personally, you're just like a lovely person. Like you're just very warm and very knowledgeable, so.
01:09:17 Fleetwood
Nothing, yeah.
01:09:18 Merrily
Politics, as far as.
01:09:22 Fleetwood
No, I think they all, it's the UM.
01:09:25 Fleetwood
There's an episode of The Simpsons where Mr. Burns goes to the doctor and they show, like all the different diseases and germs and cancers that are trying to kill them are getting stuck in the doorway, and all of them are stuck and no one can get through. Yeah, that's how. Like, battered.
01:09:41 Merrily
Yeah.
01:09:45 Fleetwood
Mars and everybody are just like, all stuck fighting each other. So.
01:09:50 Merrily
Have fun over there. Thanks.
01:09:52 Fleetwood
Yeah.
01:09:53 Fleetwood
OK.
01:09:55 Merrily
Oh my.
01:09:58 Merrily
Yeah, that's very fascinating. So thank you for sharing that.
01:10:01 Fleetwood
Yeah.
01:10:03 Merrily
So you did already kind of share some sort of interesting esoteric folks kind of in your your book recommendations are there?
01:10:10 Merrily
Anybody else that you thought?
01:10:11 Merrily
Were interesting that folks should know about.
01:10:19 Fleetwood
Well, I would say just as.
01:10:24 Fleetwood
People to work with besides the Festus, I would also recommend St. Martin of Tours is not the most well known St. but be someone that was known for tearing his. He was a Roman soldier before he was a St. and he was known for tearing his Cape.
01:10:33 Merrily
Yeah.
01:10:44 Fleetwood
In half and giving it to Cole the bagger on the side of the.
01:10:49 Fleetwood
Rd.
01:10:52 Fleetwood
And he's really good for helping people in desperate situations, so definitely recommend.
01:10:58 Fleetwood
Working with Saint Martin of Tours. That's been uh, I think pivotal for me in some ways.
01:11:08 Fleetwood
I would.
01:11:10 Fleetwood
Recommend the books by Orion Foxwood and there is a book called.
01:11:24 Fleetwood
Marriage.
01:11:26 Fleetwood
I want to say sounds like us. It's escaping me at the moment, but Orion Foxwood is mentioned in that book too.
01:11:28 Merrily
Familiar.
01:11:36 Fleetwood
Hmm.
01:11:38 Fleetwood
And but it's a.
01:11:41 Fleetwood
He's got a few really interesting books about mountain route work and fairy seership and stuff. Along those lines has a very.
01:11:53 Fleetwood
Appalachian backgrounds that I really appreciate.
01:11:57 Merrily
Yeah.
01:11:59 Merrily
Oh, cool. Yeah, I'm definitely interested in sort of the Appalachian part of.
01:12:05 Merrily
Of the US, because that's kind of, you know, not really talked about people just forget.
01:12:10 Fleetwood
Yeah.
01:12:11 Merrily
About that, it's kind of over there.
01:12:14 Fleetwood
No, it's it's. It's a quiet, just kind of everybody's making.
01:12:18 Fleetwood
Their own way.
01:12:19 Merrily
Yeah.
01:12:20 Fleetwood
But the I think as more people move into the cities, down from the mountains, there'll be more transplants like me.
01:12:25 Merrily
Hmm.
01:12:32 Fleetwood
Oh good.
01:12:34 Fleetwood
Yeah.
01:12:35 Merrily
Well, I hope you know y'all like kind of tell your stories and your practices because that would be like a really good wealth of knowledge for folks to learn about.
01:12:44 Fleetwood
Yeah, I'm definitely still. I've got a lot more to learn and do and practice for sure, but it's.
01:12:53 Fleetwood
I mean.
01:12:56 Fleetwood
Hoodoo and group work and conjure you know. No, they're not closed practices which I know they are at some places and you know, I try to be careful to not.
01:13:07 Merrily
Hmm.
01:13:11 Fleetwood
Step on those toes, but the concepts behind them are just so sound. Paying attention to the Earth and the all around you and.
01:13:27 Fleetwood
Paying respect to the spirits that.
01:13:30 Fleetwood
You know.
01:13:33 Fleetwood
Who is in the Jason Miller books? He says you pay attention to the ancestors, the spirits you may have wronged, the spirits to look out for you and.
01:13:47 Fleetwood
The gods themselves, and I think you know all four of those together, is just such a potent combination of things to look out for and make offerings to.
01:13:59 Fleetwood
Especially the experience that you may have found as a I'm an avid disc golfer. That's my other hobby besides esotericism.
01:14:08 Merrily
All right.
01:14:09 Fleetwood
And.
01:14:11 Fleetwood
I always believe in my prayers and apology to the trees I hit with my Frisbees.
01:14:17 Merrily
Yeah.
01:14:19 Fleetwood
Because they're definitely out there. And if you go on the.
01:14:22 Fleetwood
Disc golf course.
01:14:24 Fleetwood
You'll see the trees with all the notches and then go down the sides.
01:14:26 Merrily
Oh no, I'm sorry.
01:14:32 Merrily
Oh yeah, I like that.
01:14:33 Merrily
Yeah, paying attention to them is also living beings that were.
01:14:39
With.
01:14:39 Fleetwood
Just paying attention to the impacts that you make in the world, no matter how small or large, they all matter.
01:14:47 Fleetwood
A little bit.
01:14:50 Merrily
Yeah, that's a good I, yeah. Couldn't agree more with.
01:14:56 Merrily
So would you have any sort of upcoming either projects or events or anything that you would like us to know about that you may maybe upcoming for you?
01:15:07 Fleetwood
Not necessarily upcoming or ongoing, but you know I.
01:15:15 Fleetwood
We would hope to keep getting more terrorist students if anyone out there is looking for someone to teach, then Tara, one-on-one I'd be really happy to do so and I'm getting better and better at it. My hope is to eventually.
01:15:32 Fleetwood
Take my like lesson plans and maybe make a book out of them on how to learn Tara. That would kind of go full circle since I learned from a book to start with, I would love to kind of give that back, but who knows, we'll see what the future brings in that regards.
01:15:49 Merrily
Yeah, that would be really cool.
01:15:52 Merrily
But you know, however, you know.
01:15:53 Merrily
However, it works out that.
01:15:55 Fleetwood
Yeah, exactly. I've definitely never written a book before, so we'll see.
01:16:01 Merrily
Well, there's plenty of people that.
01:16:02 Merrily
Haven't you know, written a?
01:16:04 Merrily
Book before and they do it anyway.
01:16:05 Fleetwood
Yes, yes, exactly that stopped me.
01:16:06 Merrily
So yeah, you'll be fine.
01:16:09 Merrily
Yeah.
01:16:12 Merrily
So where can?
01:16:13 Merrily
Folks find out more about you, like learn more about you.
01:16:16 Merrily
Or and also find out about.
01:16:17 Merrily
The services that you.
01:16:19 Fleetwood
Offer well, the best place to find out about those services on fiberitsfivr.com/treefish.
01:16:31 Fleetwood
Arrow.
01:16:32 Fleetwood
It's like tree and fish and tarot, but all one word. I'm also on Instagram at Treefish tarot.
01:16:45 Fleetwood
India offer Tara readings of you know, different sizes and types and stuff, but also lessons on there.
01:16:54 Fleetwood
And you know, beyond that out there on in discord land, you know, if you join a terror discord, you may get a reading exchange with.
01:17:05 Fleetwood
You one day.
01:17:06 Fleetwood
But other than that, yeah, five is definitely the best place to reach me. If you're interested in the services or anything.
01:17:14 Merrily
Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody definitely check out Fleetwood Fiber and you can see an example of the reading that he did for Jason on Jason's podcast Almond Tree.
01:17:26 Merrily
Very thorough. I was like, oh, yeah, I was very thorough.
01:17:30 Fleetwood
And I'll say 25 is kind of nice because if.
01:17:34 Fleetwood
You're, I'm sure. What kind of question to ask. You can message me on there. My, you know, my deals are also open on Instagram, but fiber allows for messages and stuff to go back and forth. So feel free to hit me up. Anybody out there in cyberspace.
01:17:37
Hmm.
01:17:55 Merrily
Definitely.
01:17:57 Merrily
So kind of the final thing. You've already shared a lot of wisdom with us today. Or is there any partying words of wisdom that?
01:18:05 Merrily
You would like to leave us with?
01:18:07 Fleetwood
I guess.
01:18:08 Fleetwood
The parting.
01:18:11 Fleetwood
A little bit is I kind of said this before, but if there's one thing I've noticed in the magical community, it's the propensity to maybe ignore the mundane solutions and the mental health professionals and the medications and things like that and the exercise.
01:18:31 Fleetwood
Good diet and stuff that we can all do to take good care of ourselves and it's.
01:18:40 Fleetwood
You know, I carry crystals around with me too, but I also take my pills every morning so.
01:18:45
Right.
01:18:47 Fleetwood
Encourage everybody to be as holistic as possible, and that means even stuff that's not magical.
01:18:54 Fleetwood
Oh.
01:18:56 Merrily
That's great advice. I love it. Love, love, love, love, love. I'm definitely taking it to heart because I'm I'm very big on like taking care of.
01:19:04 Merrily
Your.
01:19:05 Merrily
Your body and your mind and your emotional well-being love it.
01:19:07 Fleetwood
It's it's just so important because they're all so much rely on each other. Your spiritual and emotional and physical health are also just tightly, tightly around. And so if you don't know where to start.
01:19:21 Fleetwood
Just going out and going for a walk because sometimes be the best things. Wonderful.
01:19:28 Merrily
Oh well, thank you, Fleetwood. I'm so happy that you agreed to spend time with us here.
01:19:34 Fleetwood
Yes, I'm so happy to do so and had such a blast. Thanks for having me on.
01:19:40 Merrily
Thank you.
01:19:42 Merrily
It was a joy having the multi talented and thoughtful Fleetwood Haddock on the show today. You got to check out Fleetwood Tree Fish Tarot account on fiber and get yourself a specialized in custom reading. And as always, the contact information is in the show notes. Do you remember to like, follow and subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform? It really helps us grip. Thank you for listening and being an important part.
01:20:03 Merrily
The casual temple.