Casual Temple

TRANSCRIPT

(Transcript is auto-generated; errors are unintentional.)

Welcome to the Casual Temple! this week. I'm beyond thrilled to have Aidan Walker as our guest. Aidan has been delving into the realm of magic for more than four decades. An experimenter and an innovator, Aidan has crafted an approach to magic that is as diverse as it is non dogmatic. His journey, marked by time spent in nature, introspection and deep breathing, has led to a transformative shift in perspective. Aidan's three books, Six Ways, Weaving Fates, and Changeling, are the documentation of his unique perspective. Aidan, I'm so excited to have you, on the Casual Temple.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Yes, thank you so much.

I did want to show you because I know one of your books. You talked. About like making tabs or your.

Awesome. That's my favorite thing. It is totally my favorite thing really early on when Six Ways came out, somebody posted one of those and I was like, wow, that's like. I have those books from.

From other people.

First, my first copy of Jan Fries book was like demoed so.

Yeah, I want it. Oh, man. Now you make me want to talk about it again. Yan Fries or Jan Fries

I don't know, you said.

Jan, one of those. Well, cool so. Now I know I'm, you know, the big fan. No secret. But so I think what I wanted to talk about today. If you're open, I think you are. We talked about it is sort of your path of music and I know your musician and how that path kind of led you to where you are and sort of I'm sure it was very parallel to your magical path. Mainly because I like to get new artist recommendations and stuff like that, so it would help me understand you as a person and kind of. Yeah, I think it's. I'm very excited to know.

Very good. Yeah, no, I'm. I'm, I'm. I'm down with that one. I'm always happy to talk. Hang on just a second though, because I'm getting unstable messages and I can fix that. No worries, I am not plugged in directly to my router and that might help so. Let's go to Ethernet. That should settle in a little. Bit now, OK. Awesome.

Great. Yeah, I guess because I know you mentioned that you were into punk rock music. So was that sort of your first for a into all of this?

Yeah. Ohh man. Kind of. Yeah. You know, I was like. I grew up. You know my the formative childhood years, so like 3 to 13, we're in the 70s, so. That's what I grew up with and. Right at the end. Of the 70s. I'd already gotten into some weird shit I got into like Klaus Schultz back then who's like a, you know, German synthesizer guy who made some pretty weird albums. But I was into all the usuals, you know, at that time, Jethro Tull, Rush that kind of stuff. And then yeah, I got turned on by a friend on to Punk into Punk Rock with like this. Like now I just I I wish I had it, or at least the set list, but it was a mixtape of everything from Sex Pistols and the damned and The Avengers and the Dead Kennedys. The Stranglers were on there, I know. And then ended with a couple tracks from Throbbing Gristle and so super wide-ranging. And when I found that I was like ohh.

Yeah.

I'm all into the weird shit. Like I didn't know the weird shit was really out there. I remember seeing the Sex Pistols on TV when they came through San Francisco on that last tour. They were on the news, but I remember seeing that hanging out with my grandma. But yeah, it's once I got into that. I was just like, OK, show me. I was like kind of super into hardcore for like a year and a half. And then that really diverged. That got me into the early, you know, earliest Cure albums and Siouxsie and the Banshees and some of that stuff. And then. Yeah. Then it got weird. Then it got. Then I got into the weird. shit. So.

Ohh like what? Ohh now I'm like what's? The weird shit. It's the weird shit.

OK, so the weird shit. The story about the weird shit is ohh. Let's turn that off. We don't need notifications. And then. So me and my friend Aaron. And well, a number of our friends were hanging out. We used to hang out in this little cafe. There was really like a Denny's. Like, I think it had been a Denny's that had gone out of business or they moved to a better location. And this other restaurant took on. So if you imagine the inside of an old Denny's, not the current models, but where you had the endless coffee and you could smoke inside. Cause it was, you know, a million years ago. Yeah. And so it was like, 9 kind of half jocks, half punks that we hung out. Chain smoking and just talking shit and drinking coffee and eating French fries for hours in this place. They. Must have hated it. But there was another crew in there that we didn't talk to, but they were obviously the other freaks, and I don't know why we never. Talked to. Them. But one day they dropped off a book of matches like in front of me with their phone number in it and said if you'd. Like to talk? Call us. And so my friend and I, Aaron called them and they said come over, we'll make you waffles. And we went over to this House and it was kind. Of the 1st. So Aaron was like 3 years older than me, so I was 15/14/15. Well, it would have been 15 and. It was kind of the first anarchist house I'd been in. That these people were really not like the people I knew. Hmm. Really interesting. Serious books and playing us. I think they played us some Stockhausen. And they played us some Neu!

and then they played us, Force the Hand of Chance by Psychic TV. And I was like, what is this more than it was so weird? I didn't even know if I liked it. But I'm like, this is the weirdest thing I've ever heard. And so I went and bought it. I found a copy of it in Berkeley and took the train into Berkeley and got it. And wrote The Temple because at that point, if you sent them international reply coupons, they would send you something in return. And while I was waiting for that, I like, went back into, I think. Rasputins records in Berkeley and found the guy that I kind of knew from buying punk rock records. There was into strange stuff and I'm like, OK, Force the Hand of Chance. What else should I get? And he hooked me up with Cabaret Voltaire and Current 93 and some Z’EV and some NON. And. I'm sure there was other stuff. Yeah, a few records that I can't remember. Who put them out? You know some, but and I had already gotten into things like hold your Shuki at that point from Cannes. So I. But I got more into can at that point. So my my musical horizons just kind of jumped from the super just straightforward rock'n'roll stuff, which is still my all time favorite. Thing, but into all this kind of crazed nonsense that just went well with reading very different books than most of my friends.

Oh yeah. Hmm.

Which began to explain, was some of what was different with me, though it would take me an incredibly long time to kind of label it go like ohh yeah, I actually have this magical worldview.

What?

Even though I grew up in the absolute most boring suburbs of California, one could hope for at that time. You know, and it was like, ohh, OK, if this is the part of the world that makes sense to me, no wonder where I grew up. Just fuckin’ sucks. Like beyond what most of my friends like, they just fuckin’ sucked.

Like.

Yes, it's boring, but it's also going to kill me if I stay in this kind of universe.

We are. Yeah, I think that's what most people when they have. Discovered punk rock have explained like even the musicians I love who kind of came after punk. Really. They all say this. It just. Like cracked their. Brain into being something new and so it sounds.

Yeah.

Like very similar.

Yeah, cause you know, I was like, close enough to Berkeley that with this. Antenna that I rigged, it was like 30 miles east, but 2020 miles East. But if I rigged this antenna, just so in my room, I could pick up maximum rock'n'roll on KPF a, so I got all the hardcore from them, but I hadn't found anything that was kind of playing the Super strange shit for the most part for a while. But you know, that turned me on to.

The. Hmm.

That actually got me sneaking out of the house more and taking BART into San Francisco and going to hardcore shows when I was 15. So I got to see just. Dozens of amazing bands. You know that my first ever show was TSOL, the Dead Kennedys in seven seconds. You know, and that was just like, whoa, if this is what we're doing, I am all about. It.

A lot of. Energy for sure, a lot of different ideas.

Yeah, just.

Bouncing off the walls.

Literally.

Yeah, it it. It was that particular moment in time was like. That whole Nazi punks fuck off thing from the Kennedys was right then, and that was an issue. There were like, big fights. It was not always safe because of that.

Right.

And I'm like, super standoffish in general, so I didn't actually get to know anybody. It was like. One of the retrospectively weird things like now I just come here to like lose it with you all and then I'm.

Yeah.

Going to you.

Bye.

Know spend the next 5 hours in Golden Gate Park until the train opens so I can sneak back home before my parents realize I'm gone.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're speaking to me. I'm a little bit like that, too. I'm like and. And and and. And I gotta get out. I gotta be by myself for a while.

Yes, that was all the people. I can do, yeah.

Feeling for the day, for sure. I don't know. How? How? So you made me think of, like, so my kind of era. Like I like all like off bands like Bauhaus is probably my favorite band. Cheesy band cheesy mentioned. I grew up or I went to high school here in Everett for a couple of years, right. When grunge was like like exploded.

Yeah.

MHM.

So that's a big part of my own purview. And then my family dragged me to Stanwood, which you might be familiar with, because it's up in sort of your area.

Yeah.

Awful for a what, 14 year old? It's the worst thing in the universe. To be stuck in farm country. But I was like very much vibing with you because you were like, I'm trying to get the antennas signal for my radio station, which was based in Seattle, which was 107.7. And because we were out in the country, I'm. Trying to like bend it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So like, that was a funny time because it's like I was heavily. I was going to a ton of shows. I was dating somebody who was super into the grunge scene and kind of related alternative stuff around there.

Yeah.

And like I never got Nirvana to this day it like. I can appreciate it, but I'm not going to listen to it, but I I'm a huge Alice in chains fan like fuckin Lane and Jerry Cantrell. fuckin. Amazing. Yes, screaming trees. I was a fan of cause of land again and I've been a Lannigan till he passed a couple years ago. So he's kind of my voice if I'm looking for a a voice in music for coming out of a male, it's Mark Lannigan.

Is one of the most unique voices. Ever for sure.

And I loved tad. Tad is deeply uncool, I think, but Tad, we're fuckin great.

No, I last had when I'm tuning around Seattle because it sounds badass. Like a lemon.

Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Inhaler is one of my all time favorite. Records. That's just one of the most hammering records.

Yes, I like that hammer. Like, I guess, like sledge, I guess it's sledge rock or what. Never like the Melvins. I've been listening to. A lot of Melvins. Lately. And so yeah.

Yeah. I'm. I I you know the thing that I haven't listened to the new record from them but.

Hmm.

That crystal fairy record that they did with Terry Gender Bender is like, way on my constant rotation. That's one of my favorite records.

They're definitely a group, a band that has, like, we're going to do this. For this album. You guys figure it out.

Which I totally approve of, yeah.

Yeah, I really love that. Oh, wow, that's very cool. Yeah, I think the. Yeah, I definitely know some of the German. The Kraut rock rock too that you mentioned and they're pretty cool too. A lot of the like newer bands that I listened to, they're always talking about Neu! and throbbing gristle.

Right. Yeah. What's the other stuff from there? Like Faust is great. Faust 4 that's a great record. What else did I get into from that kind of stuff? That Aphrodites child 666 record is kind of hugely famous when worth it. I really like this band. This heat. You have a record called Deceit. Just kill her and just almost like, yeah, there's parts of it that are like, this is kind of like if Monty Python was like a Prague band. It's not normal. And God, what else did they get into?

I like.

It was kind of that period. I don't know tons of stuff, but I don't remember it. Well.

Yeah, I'm sure it will.

And then kind of 90s? Yeah, at the 90s for me it was. Like, yeah, Nick Cave. Crime and crime in the city solution. I'm a huge rolling us Howard fan who was both in crime in the city solution and in the birthday party, but I like him better than any of the other bands. And. There was a band from Davis, like the Cow University in the Northern California, Ah, Big AG School called Thin White Rope.

Thank you.

Who are really amazing. I saw them probably 30 times. They were so good. And then you know Sonic Youth. And then my favorite band out of the 90s was Live Skull, just straight up Live Skull is that's the soundtrack.

Oh.

Of. Previous to that, yeah, like in my 1516, it was like the cure. Then later on it was live skull. Yeah.

OK. Yeah, cause that was actually sort of one of the questions I was able to ask, like if there was a biopic. Made about you. What would be on the soundtracks?

Ohh man. Yeah, totally. It's it's such a. It's such a weird blend. Yeah, The Flesh Eaters coming from the. Yeah, but only like. Yeah, the forever came today and a hard road to follow that band, which was the more rock'n'roll band version of it. Definitely the 1st. Yeah, like. 17 seconds. Faith and Pornography from the cure.

Hmm.

And then all of Live Skull, they just got back together and there's stuff's fine, but, well, the main guy who's got a new band using the same name, but the live skull records are amazing, incredibly bleak and just angular and weird. So good shit.

That. Wow. Cool. Yeah, that definitely sounds like a soundtrack I would be into. Now this seems like a A you know. So I know you do a lot of. Long bike rides do. You listen to music on those bike rides at all, or do you? Are you?

No.

Completely just.

No, I don't. Yeah. No, I don't do music. When? I do that. Yeah, that's one of those things. It's kind of meditative and.

And a medicine.

I try and do it out in nature as much and I just kind of. Get. I was talking to somebody a couple weeks ago. That was I was showing the woods around here like, I think that part of my function in this world is to wander around in nature and, like, cool about it. Like like,coo. You're cool. fuck, you're so cool. I love the Moss. It's so cool. So that's what I'm doing.

I love it. Oh my gosh. Everything. Sure, nature appreciates all the kids.

It may not, but it, but it's it's gonna happen anyway.

Yes, we're going to like, think you're cool and you're, you know, we're going to.

Yeah.

Have it.

Absolutely.

Now this is like, So what similarities do you see in sort of just how I'm tying them together like music and magic? I see it all the time.

Oh man, yeah. So to me like. And while it's ostensibly a book on sigils, this is actually kind of the other piece of it is the book that I'm working on now. Kind of. Discusses this so. One way we could think about magic if you're an animist like I am, or even if you're thinking about it psychologically, there's other models that may not. This may not work. As well, but. Is that these different practices are. You know. Ways of speaking that it's a communication tool that there's this. That if we kind of pull it aside from that, we're going to impose our will upon the system and instead subdivide that and go OK. Instead, what if what we're doing with all these different actions that we do is we're creating different. Languages or different sentences? Or maybe different ways of using languages and sentences. So some things are poetry and some things are technical manuals, right? And so different ways of approaching magic and different people's approaches are going to be speaking to different parts of the psyche. And then different parts of the system, right? Because if you're just talking to yourself, it doesn't really matter. But if you're talking trying to communicate to other people.

Yeah.

You have to work. Harder to get it across right. And so I think this is how I this is what I think music is to me and why music is such a magical thing is somebody is having that communication with me.

Yes.

Without having any way of knowing that I'm receiving it as they intend it. So I look at. Like, there's music that I listen to specifically when I know that I have. Grief stuff that's blocked. Because it will just cause me to breakdown. Yeah, and it's not something I'm great at. So it's like, OK. Time to go. Listen to some things that will get. Let me get this out of my system. Right. And so in a way, I can kind of look at those and go that for me. Whatever the intention was of that person. These are kind of spells of of Road. opening for my. Grief, and I see this with a lot of stuff, so I like. That last I have never listened anything other than techno train, but that like half of the Electric Call Boy album that came out a couple years ago, I think is like my Super happy music like Dua Lipa is like Super Happy music to me. Like OK, if I'm like.

Hmm.

Almost there, but I'm not there and I know that it's just cause I've got too much shit in my head. I. Can use music to move beyond that. And so music is this communication between the artist and me. But then it becomes once it's recorded. This tool that I can pull out of the toolkit whenever I need it to do whatever I need it to do so you know like super odd one that I was thinking about the other day I've listened to Hounds of Love. Every time I've flown since that record came out.

Really.

Like for whatever reason, like when they make you buckle, buckle your seatbelts. I turned that on. And so I've taken off to that first track. Every single flight I've been on in. Whatever it is, 30 years. Wow. And it's like this super weird little magic thing. And it just makes every flight perfect, you know?

Wow, that's so funny because now I'm like, thinking all the little things that I tend to do with that, too. I think there's like a new order. Try to remember it. It's if they had it for the real world, like the the title track like they played this new order song every time I've moved into it. And when I moved into my first place, like on my own, I played that song. And so now every time I move into a new. Place I play that song so it kind.

Absolutely.

Of sets the tone of like being independent and. You know on my own, but you know, but missing home kind of thing.

Absolutely. And I also think you know like. And then there's music that also just changes how I think.

Hmm.

Like I'm a huge fan of this guy, Chris Whitley. Because he changes what I think. Like he's he's he's like really not. He's probably not clear enough for most people. He's a he's not. He's a hard sell for most people and for those of us who are into him, we just fuckin dude was just fuckin astounding. But it's like the majority of his songs. I don't know what they're about. And I've been listening to them for 20 years.

Hmm.

Like I don't know. Like different days I have different thoughts about it and he was really clearly not trying to tell you a coherent story. He was very much viewing this as some kind of poetry. And he talks about that and it's it was one of the things that I thought was really cool about him is. I heard an interview with him. And they said So what is your like approach to songwriting goes? Well, I think everybody's really boring for the most part because it's all so clear. And he goes. And to me, like the perfect song ever. Is this Howlin' Wolf song, which I don't know if you know or not, but called smokestack lightning.

Hmm. Yeah.

Check it out and from that perspective of and, he says. And what is that song really about? It's really hard to tell, like.

Yeah.

It's not. He's like, you know, people have. This is what he's talking about. And maybe he said, this is what he's talking about. But just listening to it. It's about something on a visceral level.

Hmm.

That maybe doesn't actually have a cognitive like a conscious cognitive version, you know. And Chris is like that for me, that there's shit, there's songs that his that I absolutely love that periodically all go like. What do I think that he's even talking about here and it's like, I don't know, but it's, like crushing. It's crushing, you know.

Hey, I didn't like that.

That's. Yeah.

Sounds like the like Swans. Kind of the similar sort of. Yeah, so. I definitely need to check it out.

I was a big Swans. I was a big Swans fan. Yeah, yeah, I was lucky enough to see them a few times back in the day. I saw them for children of God and. Two things after I can't remember what the other ones were, but really Killer band.

Yeah, it's like the same thing. I'm like, how are? You talking about? That's speaking to something to me.

Ohh yeah, I know I have a great swan story from back then. I was like probably 17 and. Maybe a little bit older cause I was at that bookstore for a while and so I was working at a tower bookstore that was attached to a tower records store as they. Were. And so. The bookstore was filled with music freaks as well, you know? And this guy Serge and Serge somewhere is out in the world, so I won't say his last name, but he moved here, moved there from Russia. And so he was this kind of, I think he was a drummer or a bass player. Total metal head, like 18 years old. Geared down to his waist because he's, you know, that kind of guy and. So he's. Dropping off various music and we're checking it out and I gave him a copy. I gave him a cassette of holy money by the Swans and he came back in the next day and he's like in that sea for Burley. See for fresh off the boat acts at his leg. This is in metal, but it's heavy as ****.

Yes and yes.

It's like you understand, my friend. You know I loved them.

Oh yeah, that's a good that's a good one. I love those late trading. That's something that's missing. Is like treating those. Tapes, people.

But.

Is like the. Best thing?

Such a thing, you know. It's it's. I was thinking about it. One of the things that I do enjoy about the online world is such a weird one. And I finally figured out why. Which is I like watching reaction videos to music that I love. I like watching people hear it for the first time, and it's because I used to do that. I used. I remember I got. The Japanese import of Pornography by the cure before it was released in the US and took it over to my friend Don's house and put it on while he was in the bathroom and got him loaded and said. Tell me what band this is and put it on and he was like, I don't know, is this public image and he's the guy who turned me on to the cure because it was such a violent.

Right.

That is hilarious, yeah.

Change. And I'm like, no, it's the fuckin new cure. Record. He's like, wow, you.

Yeah.

And I missed that whole thing of sitting in a room with somebody playing music that they have not heard before and watching them groove on it.

Oh gosh. Now, now I'm like, I need to watch music.

It's a it's a horrible rabbit hole, but it's like definite. It's my definite time sucker when I need just to zone out. That's what I do.

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. And it's super positive. I would assume for the most part.

Oh yeah, it's like you just find people that you do, that you're kind of like, oh, yeah, I want to. See this person deal. With Layne Staley, let's see like.

He's amazing voice and. And what are you talking about, lane? For sure. Yeah. So definitely. And I know you're so you. So we talked definitely about music and I know you mentioned sort of books in your writing as well. And would you say that there are similar kind of paths with books in your life that were influential?

UM.

Yeah. And I have to throw a Monster Magnet in there cause I missed them and I'm a die hard Dave Windorf freak and everyone anybody is welcome to judge me, cause yes, it is incredibly ridiculous and fantastic, but.

Oh, OK, yeah.

Yeah. So. I remember I was reading. Like kid books. You know, in elementary school, young adult stuff. And then. In 4th grade I read the Lord of the Rings. And that was really cool. And then that, like, opened up this whole thing about science fiction and fantasy. And so I kind of started with the stuff that, like, the adults were, like, legit with for kids, which is like Ray Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov. But I really got into some fucked up shit really fast. By the by 6th Grade I was kind of like, what's the weirdest shit I can find, and that got me heavily into Michael Moorcock, which got me into Hawkwind, so that was a direct interrelation, which was a big thing.

Yes.

Hmm.

And. Because of that. When I was. Ohh yeah, when I was 11. I was. I got into Moorcock because my brother bought me a calendar. That was Rodney Matthews, who's also famous for his album cover art for Nazareth and things like that.

2.

And it was this. It was all fantasy, and it was all illustrations based on Michael Moorcock stories. And I'd never read any Moorcock. And so I found Moorcock started reading his stuff, and I'm shortly after that I had a an interaction in a dream with the man in black in the. Bookstore that I went to to buy science. Fiction in Berkeley. And that was kind of the switch that turned me into whatever it is I am now. That's a straight up. Yeah. I I I have a straight on straight up, yeah. Visionary experience sent me down this road, so.

I like that it was like a book that did that for you, and especially since it seemed like your at least your musical influences were kind of prog rock, and they all did the fantasy, you know, they did all. The fantasy starts.

It was all like, yeah, it's like either prog rock or like, yeah, just, like, super jamming stuff or, like, let's go kill ourselves in the rain goth stuff, you know? But so I got into that stuff and. It didn't know that that was a magical event, but the whole experience stuck with me and. Previous to that I was different. I know that like my life radically changed after that, and part of that was.

Hmm.

Within another couple of years I bought. Book 4 by Crowley. In earth power by Scott Cunningham. And the spiral dance by Starhawk. And. It was, it would have been right in there that would have come in right before. And then in 82, I would have gotten the Grey book from the Temple of Psychic Youth and Ralph Blum’s book on runes. And so all of that stuff kind of sent me in, like, OK, this is what? I'm interested in. This is what I what what is making sense. And then I had exposure through my dad's books in the first three Castaneda donated books, which retrospectively I could see really informed my worldview. Like I didn't, they didn't stick, but if I think about how I think about magic.

Hey.

There's more in that than there is in Crowley or in the spiral dance or something like that. In that it's this super kind of peculiar between the worlds. Trans visionary stuff.

Right. Yeah, I guess that was something I was thinking about too in the books that you know, of course, you read a lot of magical books, but it seemed like the things that maybe weren't, quote, UN quote, magical, like, the Moorcock books. And then the Castaneda books were the ones that really kind of shifted things for you. It sounds like. No way.

Yeah, I think I was looking specifically for different worldview. And so I think I had to find the people who were really unapologetic. About that worldview which I got both in some rock'n'roll I got it in some science fiction and fantasy. So Castaneda was like that and then some fantasy stuff was because generally it's like I could kind of look at, like, Starhawk stuff. And she was, I was really too young. The politic there and I was never really wired to the politic like I was. I think from a really early age, I was like the world is insane. And so assuming that there's a social way to undo social insanity, I don't think I ever really bought all the way. And I was definitely too young to really grasp kind of the feminist stuff in there, and that became very important later on in Crowley. I I I read Crowley for a long time trying to figure out what it was, and I was finally like, I don't believe this guy. Like, I don't think he knows. What he doesn't hasn't experienced? Like I think he was so in his head and it's not saying he didn't experience a lot of shit, but he was clearly so cerebral that I was like, that's a different universe than mine. I think it's very much a lot of people's universe.

Right.

Yeah.

And then later on kind of coming into the kind of ideas of neurodivergence and things like that that begin to make more sense of like ohh yeah. You know, if I think about Crowley Crowley was not neurodivergent. That's really clear. No, that's the he's not showing any of that, but Spare quite possibly, you know. And so I think I was looking for different narratives about reality more than I was looking for technique most of the time and it took me a long time to realize that.

Right.

And so I got more from reading on. You know Haitian voodoo. Though I never practiced it because it was showing a different way of thinking. A lot of both indigenous written and then anthropology about indigenous cultures, primarily US indigenous cultures. This is again, when I was really young retrospectively.

Right.

I can see I was looking for a worldview that didn't seem as fucked up as the one that I was surrounded by.

Right.

And so that was really all. Kind of super crucial. To that and then kind of, I mean it's. I think Kenneth Grant was more useful to me than Crowley was because again, it's like this guy's a nut job. What it does, it's like, clearly this didn't happen the way that he described it. This was my brain reading Kenneth Green early on, like, cause we would know if all of these people were dead, but are apparently dead, you know.

Right.

But it turned me on to folks that. Were influential just in their being unapologetic, Grant for one, Michael Bertao of the Gnostic Rudin workbook. Not my thing. That whole thing, not my thing, but unapologetic like this is weird. This is way beyond woo. Weird. This is, you know. And then that was also the thing was, that's like I had exposure to people who were Wiccans, who were new age folks, who or whatever, who were badass. And I knew a lot of ceremonialists, and I was in the cast scene for a while who really looked down on that, and sometimes it was funny because I was like, like, I know, 70 year old women who would smoke your ass if you decided to have magical battle with them. And they're just new age. Little Twinkies that if they got.

Hmm.

You in their crosshairs and thought you were a menace to society. You would not be anymore, you know. Wow. And so it was really open like, this doesn't have to look any particular way.

Right.

You know, Ramsey Dukes was really helpful for me. His book SSOTBME is kind of a really formative book because he was looking at like, have you read that book? Worth reading sex secrets of the black magicians exposed. But that's not what it's about, which is why I like Ramsey. But.

Yeah.

Whoa.

It's looking at he he basically comes in and he says, OK, So what if we put forward a model that said there are four different ways that one could look at the world and you could view and experience the world. And that is the artistic, the religious, the scientific and the magical and. They become kind of a Venn diagram, so it's not that it's one or the other. You're going to have different degrees of intersection, right? And so to me, it was like, OK, this guy is actually thinking about the thinking behind the actions. Which to me is interesting because it gets behind the mythology like we have a huge respect or there is a huge respect I think because it's got links into academia and because both the Golden Dawn and a lot of the the United States, Pagan groups, even the UK Pagan groups as well have folklore. Backgrounds, like a lot of folklore scholars, so that's really accepted as this is a way that you can look at this stuff and make it.

Right.

Reasonable. And I was always kind of like. But what if it's not reasonable? What if what's actually going on really is? Kind of a level of extremity. Over that. So like I began looking at folklore and going well. A lot of folklore is explicitly anti magic and it's anti individuality like the stories are what happens to you if you stray like that's not magic. That's anti magic.

Right.

And you know, reading a book by. John Crowley called Aegypt and I think it's been released under a different name, but it's a three book series of fantasy books and great if you're into occultism because John D is a character in it. Giordano Bruno is a character in it, but it's a kind of these incursions of the past into these people in a small town. And one of the kind of recurring themes in it and I don't remember if this is the language he uses or not as he basically says, you know. Things were once not as they are now, and that really stuck with me because to me that was the thing I was looking for is I was going, OK. I think we got off with me personally. No judgment on anybody that's happy with this place. But I think that we got off track really bad at some point and it doesn't mean I want to go back to what it was. But that we threw the baby out with the bathwater. And so I began running off of a different kind of explanation model that said, OK, if I read this thing that says this guy would. This witch or whatever would do this thing. It would be transported into another world. I'm going to take that at face value now. I don't know what is meant by was transported into another world.

Right.

So I don't necessarily believe that that happens physically in any sense that we would understand as physical now. But that opened me up. Think, I think, to kind of my experience of trance work of going ohh yes I do that. I go into other worlds that are as real as this one and are often far more impactful and so which is the real world?

Hmm.

And. I think that all used to be closer. Yeah, for humanity in general. And I think that we see this in kind of the records that that have been made by a really unsympathetic people among indigenous populations throughout the world. You know, if 100 years ago, people hadn't been quite such shits. We would have really good information. That we don't, and to me that's a huge piece of magic as you go. OK, so. It's not Joseph Campbell hero with 1000 faces no issues with that. It's good material. But. What if what we broadest umbrella called Magic? Is a way to actively connect with the very real worlds that are critical to our survival as a species, and that the divorce from that. Has us where we are now, which is what I believe and what my allies tell me. And so you know, it's it's kind of funny because I get a. This is why I'm behind the paywall of of Patreon. For the most part, but anymore is. So many people want to go. Yeah, but everything is natural. And you go well. It depends what you. Mean.

Hmm.

Would it have come about without you? Or without our kind. So like, no, this lovely Rd. microphone would never have manifested. You know, this computer would never have manifested. And yes, they're, they're awesome. I love them.

Yes.

But. Were disembodied from the physical.

Yeah.

In a way, which was kind of, I think, an intentional move of Western industrialism. In. The thing that had to go for that to happen was this connection to what I am calling magic in its broadest sense.

Oh yeah. That's amazing. I've been thinking a lot cause I've been working with some of my ancestral spirits as well. And so, and I've been thinking a lot about that because I my dad was Irish American. My mom is Filipino. Both cultures kind of like their history is pretty much removed for the most part, it's, you know. But sort of what I've kind of gotten from the the answers that I've communicated with is sort of doing sort of trance excavation. With them of, like, sort of those past histories.

MHM.

Now where that butts up against is, I think maybe is the material world right, because in our material world they say oh, but you need the anthropology, anthropology, evidence of this and this and this and this and this. And so I think that that's where we sort.

Of.

Have that, that disconnect of kind of where you're talking about, we're sort of. All up in the mind and not really down into the body. And the material?

Yeah. World.

Well, that's what's interesting is it's, is, it's, is it's I think is it's it is like a. I mean to use the modern terms and the stuff that based on what I've been playing with, it's like it's a. It's like a a somatic disconnect.

Hmm.

Whereas that psyche Selma thing is intended, if we look at Psyche in its earlier form, as I love to quote is you know body, mind, Spirit which is an interlaced thing, it's a singular thing. It's not three different things.

Right.

And I think that that move is how do you get people? Into the city and into the factory.

Hmm.

You have to generate that separation, because who's going to walk into that, especially as shitty as it was back then, you know, like really like, I'm sorry. We may go. Oh, yeah. I don't want to go plow the fields, but plowing the fields versus digging in the coal mine.

Right. Yeah.

Right.

I'm plowing the fields, babe. Yeah, that's a way better way to spend 40 hours a week. You know, both are going to have a physical toll, and then you get into, you know, early.

M.

Kind of youth. Child labor industrialism, which still we export to other places now it still goes on you go. That's not. And this is where the allies won't let me. Be. Correct. That's not right. You know, I want to say it's not correct, but they're like, no, it's not right. That's not something that you should do if you're looking for something called health or Wellness.

Hmm. OK.

You know, and you can come up with a billion arguments for it, but they're all going to be cerebral. Yeah. None of those are going to be true. In the body, yeah. And so to me, that's the that's that's. So how do you mesh kind of this body and spirit? Respect without throwing out the intellect, but how do you put it in a into something like an equal partnership instead of going? But we have to have all of the scientific proof and if anything it's very clear right now that that really only ever exists for like 10 minutes.

Right.

You know, and then it gets changed with the new scientific truth. And you go, OK, so how is this helping us?

Great.

Too attached to it in kind of a religious fashion, which is, and the answer is it allows kind of domination and it allows that separation because people if if you.

Hmm.

Were. To to me, if you were to connect everybody back to their kind of spiritual core like the whole planet all at once.

Yeah.

People in power today would not be in power beyond tomorrow. No, it's like ohh yeah. No half of us could die to take care of this. That would be OK, right? That's the correct thing. OK. Yeah, that's easy. That's easy math. You go, you know.

Yeah. And I think that's something in your books. You definitely. So you know, it's kind of re looking at them before we had a chance to talk. And you have this very, I call it, like, synesthetic way of writing, where it's like it kind of hits all of those things. It hits like the mind, body spirit. And so it's like, oh, OK, yeah, like. And then a lot of your techniques are very much. And you know, describing all of that, like getting into your body like discernment, too, which doesn't have that sort of intellectual component of, like, what are you asking yourself? Questions and. Like you know. All of that. So that's really great. So how do you think? So meaning or. So if your body is a separate entity, an independent of of the mind, why is it important to distinguish both?

So it it's it's not and this is actually an interesting thing. So the mind the, the, the, the HMM. So the current kind of. I'm going to say the kind of current scientific materialism model which is breaking down would say that the that the mind is over the body is how I would say it if we were thinking of it. Hierarchically.

Right.

But functionally, we don't have that without the body. So the mind is the body and the body is the mind. What happens, I think, is that if we're disconnected from the actual experience that we're actually having in the body.

Right.

We become incredibly disconnected from ourselves. We aren't. We're like literally non functional because. Communication isn't happening both ways, so like I've seen this a million times in my life and I imagine you have too where you like, know something is is is not what you should do. And you like, literally talk yourself into it because you can't find the proof. That satisfies that scientific materialist aspect of your consciousness. To just go now, I know that that's right. And I'm going with it right.

Right.

Uh. Because again, it's like. If we were to remove just to bring it down to the, to the moment, and I won't go too political, but. Because it's the obvious situation. If we were to remove all of the. Story. From what's happening in Gaza right now. And it was just this is what is happening here or this is what's happening in all over the place. Africa, Haiti, for God's sake. And we removed all of the stories because there's tons of stories about why it's OK for these things to happen to the people that's happening to you. And so if we remove that talk and we're just showing that. I think that as an animal who has some respect for other animals, people would go like, yeah, that's not good.

Right.

That's not what I want to have happen to people. It's this layering of story and not good story because it's story with an agenda. It's not a story that's trying to to. Explain reality, right? It's a story that's trying to constrain reality to a particular end, right. And so really, it's an integration that we're looking for is how do you get to where you can say, OK, yeah, we've got all this tech, we've got all this medicine. We've got all of these, this ability to manufacture. Hmm. And we know. That. Perhaps 90% of that is pointed towards ends that are to actually. Generally beneficial? Likely yes. They benefit particular people, but they're not beneficial to the system as a whole. So in a sense, what we have is you know it's it's and again it's like it's not that humanity is this parasitic cancer but which is a point of view. I have have held at different points in my life.

Right.

But instead that. The way that we've arranged kind of our societal structures. Which is our mental structures and how we think and how we communicate about it, allows those who wish to operate in that way. In an extractive way to do so because we can't find the specific proof.

Right.

That is universally accepted to say no, that's just bad magic. And we don't, we don't do bad magic anymore because we want to be here in 500 years.

Yeah. Yeah. I like that perspective of like kind of looking at a situation without and then just maybe feeling in your body, because if you think I'm thinking, my cats like if my cats were to see like a group of cats fighting, you know, or whatever, you know they would have like, a specific reaction whether it is to jump in or, you know, try to calm somebody down. Like it wouldn't be wound up in the story of who did what. You know, they would just ask her what is happening.

Yeah. Well, it's funny. It's like I have, you know, I had goats when I lived out in the country. And and these huge livestock guardian dogs who were raised by other livestock, guardian dogs and other goats. Not by me. I just fed them, gave them water and got them vetted by having the vet come out like they've never been indoors. Ohh wow anywhere you know and. They were really cool to learn from because it's. Like you know, they had games that they played with the Ravens and the Ravens. Some of the Ravens figured out games that they could play with them.

Wow.

And they would totally there was, there was rules, you know, it's. And there was times you did this and there was a particular thing you landed on this particular post and started talking. And if the dogs were were into it.

Yeah.

They would get up and come over and then they would play these games and likewise. Our dogs. Were bonded to in order the each other, the goats, and then us. You know, if I had tried to because we didn't, we weren't harvesting our goats. If I had tried to kill one of my goats, my dogs would have taken me out. I think no problem. Like like. Nope, that's actually my pack. You hear my person. And that's cool. We like you. That this is my world, you know. And so the thing that was really interesting is they were, like, super judicious. So like the Coyotes would come by. They talked to the Coyotes. They clearly liked the Coyotes as long as they were.

Yeah.

On the other side of the fence.

Hmm.

Coyote comes in after the livestock. No, that's not acceptable. But are they gonna let go? Hunt down all the coyotes? No, they totally dug the coyotes. The Coyotes are like, cool. They're. Like. You know, they're the roamers. They get news. I think the Coyotes would probably give them news from what was going on for miles around. And our dogs were like, that's awesome, dude, stay the fuck away from my goat.

Yeah. Just stay over there.

You know, and so I think it. Is that thing it's like. We're really weird in that we. Can generate again story that says we can take all of something and destroy to whatever extent and it'll be OK because we're really smart. We'll figure it out. We always do. You know and. You know, it's like I think they now think that we've been probably talking for like 100,000 years. Like we really haven't been around all that long in our current form. We haven't had this kind of power for more than you know.

Right.

Depending on what day you pick it up yesterday or 200 years ago or 500 years ago, and I think we're just children and don't know what we're doing with it so.

It's.

Yes, I yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's definitely sort of deprogramming those stories. Of what? Your body and your spirit and your your whole being knows is either right or wrong or however you view it. Yeah, it's just like getting those out. Of there, man.

Yeah. And it's and then it's just like, you know it's it's, it's. It's super interesting when I think when when you look at it that way, cause you look at, OK. You know we've generated the ability to like. Weirdly, feed the planet multiple times over and yet have a ton of people starving to death, and the people who get to eat everything they want.

Yeah.

To are really sick. What's the fuckin combo there? Like, this is not hard to sort if you want to throw the money out there and stop listening to the people that don't want you to do this, you know it's all fixable. And so that's the thing that's really kind of.

Exactly.

Interesting and depressing is it's I.

No. You're like it's so easy. It's so hard.

For this it's like this. Get their maximum dividend this year.

Yeah.

Oh man.

Yeah. And I know that you have this discussion in Darragh, Darragh Mason’s Spirit Box to score. Which is a really fun and great community.

It is.

Regarding sort of movement and meditation and the thing I'm gonna paraphrasing, you can definitely correct me, but what I remember was, you know, you said something about like people don't move enough in today's world, like probably in the Western world, and meditation is saying you got to sit still and you were maybe like how about we move a little bit more.

It's. 50 thing it's it still is a great thing if you can. This goes kind of more specifically into somatics as the language is used now into kind of somatic experiencing coming from Peter Levine School of Things. Lots of the polyvagal theory stuff from Stephen Porges and Deb Dana, and it's that stuff that's very big right now and for good reason. I think there's an incredible amount of good. In there. I used to be very much of the if you're. Wigging out. You should spend more time doing sitting meditation until I got into. Kind of personal high anxiety moves and I went ohh and it's impossible. Interesting. I didn't know. I didn't have that at that point in time. Interesting. God, I'm an ******* because I've got 30 years of suggesting this to people that I really. You know, from an A standpoint. Ohh amends to but. Yeah, you know, Darren and I were really talking about like, it's the point that like, I get to the actual peak of my. Crazy levels of anxiety, the way that I started to get out of it was just walking myself to exhaustion, basically. Because it would get me settled. It's like overtime. It would get me settled in a way that I couldn't do. I couldn't regulate that aspect of my neurology. But I could be fine if I walked. Uh. And I retrospectively know that that probably led to my like long distance running and my bicycling and my weight lifting and all the stuff that I've done over the years were ways that I was regulating that I didn't know, which also allowed me to then meditate when it was able to, you know. And so it's again, it's just it's not separable.

OK. Yeah.

UM. And then there's a a weird thing that I think is kind of relevant, which is that. When we look at meditation. We kind of have to. Depending on what we're doing with it, we kind of have to also look at what is the story behind. What we're doing?

Hmm.

Because sometimes that story is the one that I'm not really fond of, which is your body and your bodily drives and your bodily knowledge is wrong because it's not rational.

Right.

Which I don't agree with. I think it's differently rational. And so if we're kind of fixated on that view, I don't think that we're getting, we're not getting what would, what is helpful to me. And I think this is kind of it goes into what we were talking about before we started talking whatever way you kind of map people. Whether that's through Neurotypicals and Neurodivergence, whether it's human design and generators, manifesting generators and projectors or whatever, just the Zodiac signs introvert extrovert, all of these things that are ways to try and explain how we're different well-being.

MHM.

Essentially the same structure lathe. The wiring is different.

Right.

UM. And so I think when we look at the meditation stuff, the more I tried to go into forms that were really trying to get me separated from my body in some ways. The less. Well, I was.

Hmm.

Because to me that's I can't operate that way. I'm definitely like, supposed to be really in my body and my body is where I get my knowledge from. I don't.

Hmm.

Think. In too much, I discover through my body what's going on, and then through using all of me, I'm able to to come up with solutions that generally will work for me. They won't necessarily work for anybody else, you know. And so I think that that is it's. Yeah. So, you know, now I would, I would pull back on my meditation. Recommendations for anybody that says if you get, if you find you're getting more anxious. I would be looking at things like somatic. Somatically based either therapies or counseling methods or just polyvagal release methods, things like that to try and settle that because that's more important to me.

Right.

Then you being able to sit for an hour, because if you're agitated through that whole thing, you're not getting any clarity.

Yeah.

And if you can get relaxed. In a world that is really not designed for us to be relaxed. And is kind of designed to be. Have us agitated? Yeah. That's probably more important for most people right now. I know it is for me. It's like. No, it's like what? What do I have to do to not be reactive? On a really base level, not at a high level, that's something that can come in in whatever times it comes, you know.

Yeah, I like I yeah. Thank you for explaining that because it's definitely something when I either work with people or talk with people about, you know, because they're like, I they want to also have sort of experiences with talking with their beings or their allies or their guides, and they're having a lot of trouble. And, you know, the general thing is, like, sit and meditate. But if you have all this other stuff going on, you know, maybe it is great to explore somatics or polyvagal, or even exercise, you know, go for a nice long walk, see if that. Clears some stuff. Up.

Right. And realize that like, you know, I've talked about it before. But you know it's it's, it's. There's really cool wiring stuff too, like the whole EMDR. Emdr, I think.

Yeah.

Is essentially a way of physically triggering the effects that we have of walking.

Hmm.

Through an environment that it produces the same kind of stimulation that the optic flow of the world passing by you, which has major major neurological effects, and allows you to let go of things.

Hmm. Hmm.

And it allows you to think different things. This is like known by the neuroscience community. And so there's there's a reality to that, which again then, if we also look at that you go. So everybody goes well, I'll just go to the gym and walk on the treadmill. Do you have the option to not do that? And I understand that everybody does because it's not the same thing.

Reveries.

Yeah.

Because then the world isn't passing you by, and so it's not just the movement, it's the movement through space. And your perception. As you move through space is what you get from walking or running or cycling. It's not just the fact that you get a particular kind of cardiovascular exercise that's not at all. I mean, it's not it in total.

Right. Yeah, it's making me think like, yeah, it's basically, yeah, the actual movement through space. You're literally in a different headspace, like moving through different spaces.

Right. Well, and and again, I think it makes. So much sense because it's. Kind of humans as. Localized in space for long periods of time is very new.

Hmm.

UM, if we look at it again and I I take a really long view, I don't care. When we started talking, I think that we've been basically as we. Are. For a long time, you know several hundreds of thousands. Of years at. Least. I don't think the animal has changed. I think our higher brain changed, but we're mostly the animal no matter what. We were mostly really mobile, that whole nomad nomadism. Hunter gatherers, all of that stuff. We're spending. Huge amounts of time moving through space and so if we look. At. It's kind of interesting, you know, there's in all of the office health things you'll ever see where they give out the pedometers. And so they will. They want you to get 10,000 steps which? Is about 6 miles, right? So if you look at that. And then you look at kind of the ethnography of modern hunter gatherers in general. They say that most of those people move between 6 and 10 miles a day. So you could link that up and say, OK, so it's. This. 10 to 15,000 steps a day is the key, and you go no. Because they're actually moving through a world that they're completely engaged in. They're having optic flow for hours.

Right.

They're having communication with themselves with each others in that moving state 4 hours a day. This is not the same thing as going and watching the news on a treadmill or listening to a podcast on a treadmill, and it's going to have a very different effect. And I think, especially if you're viewing the world magically. That's not hard to then extrapolate out. And go ohh. How how do I best operate to get these things happening in a? In a way that the animal is designed for them to happen. Which to me I think is also probably why I've always. Not always, but I've generally had a lot of access to the transfer worlds because I've very rarely been a driver and I'd prefer not to be on the bus. So I'm generally walking miles or riding miles every day, and so I think parts of me get to settle out almost every day. That probably don't for a. Lot of people.

Right. Oh yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, I'm definitely going to be thinking about that and thinking I need to go for more walks for sure. Thank goodness. Oh, thanks, Aidan. So definitely. Yeah. So many things that you said, I'm going to be thinking about for many days now for sure. Do you have any sort of? So we're kind of ending here, but do you have any sort of upcoming projects or events?

OK.

That you want us to hold out or.

UM. Not specifically. I'm going to be traveling for a good number of months, so that's what's coming up for me. And you know, I've kind of as I as I kind of hinted at earlier, I've pretty much moved my entire online existence into Patreon, which is awesome. It's really it's way more manageable for my.

It is fun, yeah.

World. And so that's where most of my attention goes. And I've been cranking out videos in there. I try and get out four videos a month, sometimes more, sometimes less, and that will continue while I'm traveling. But that's most of what I have going on.

Nice. Yeah, I would definitely suggest I am in your Patreon. I'm just kind of quiet at the moment, but I'm definitely there and they're like, great community. Your videos are amazing. You're very engaging with the community, so I highly, highly recommend it.

Thank you. I'm glad. Yeah, I know. And I'm glad that it's working for people. I was like, really like, I don't know if anybody's gonna care about this. At all. But you never know.

You never know. Yeah, very.

It's been good.

Well, yeah. I'm so thankful for that. And that you have you made that community, so that's amazing. Generally, how you have given us so many words of wisdom, but is there any sort of last words of wisdom that you would like? To leave us with today.

I'm well, I'm just going to speak to the people in the US or the people that are connected to the US like.

The.

I would strongly suggest. Maybe right now because it's not a bad time because things will not level out of taking a little space and figure out how you're going to do the next. Six or seven months. Because it's going to be messy. Particularly in the news world and in the social media world, it's like we've all done that. Most of us have done this before. Not everybody was necessarily online the last time that this went around, but.

That's what I hear.

Hmm.

These are this is a a particularly ugly election cycle and will only continue. And so I would suggest just for the magically inclined folks, figure out now how you want to address that because you could choose.

Sure.

True. Great advice. Definitely hear that from like like that seems like the best solution.

I'm gonna go ride my bike in the middle of nowhere. I'm going to go camping for the next six months.

Yes. Oh man, for sure. Well, it's definitely going to be those times. They'll be interesting to upserve for sure and live in well. Yeah. Thank you. Aidan, that was great advice.

Thank you for having.

Me. Thank you so much.

No, it's a pleasure.

Thank you.

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EPISODE 29 - Aidan Wachter

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