Casual Temple

TRANSCRIPT

(Transcript is auto-generated; errors are unintentional.)

00:00:04 Merrily

Welcome to Casual Temple podcast episode 49, and I'm your host, Merrily Duffy. At Casual Temple,

00:00:10 Merrily

Our mission is to discover our connection to the unseen world of spirit and how that empowers us to know our true selves.

00:00:17 Merrily

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Subscribe and leave a star review on your favorite podcast platform.

00:00:21 Merrily

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00:00:24 Merrily

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00:00:29 Merrily

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00:00:33 Merrily

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00:00:34 Merrily

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00:00:36 Merrily

Today, we're diving deep into the realms of.

00:00:38 Merrily

Esoteric wisdom and the fascinating world of rare books with an incredible guest, Rick Harris.

00:00:44 Merrily

Rick is the owner of archetypal artworks, and his passionate collector and scholar of the mysterious and mystical. So sit back, relax, and get ready for a journey through Albany transformation and the search for meaning.

00:00:55 Merrily

Stay tuned to the Casual Temple podcast for the mundane meets the mystical.

00:01:03 Merrily

Welcome to the casual temple.

00:01:05 Merrily

Today, we have the pleasure of hosting an illuminating guest, alchemy enthusiast and antiquarian Rick Harris.

00:01:13 Merrily

Rick is the owner of archetypal art works and has been a passionate book collector since his freshman year in college.

00:01:19 Merrily

Since 2011, he has been providing esoteric artwork, books and education, focusing on categories such as alchemy, astrology, English, Renaissance, literature, psychology and much, much more.

00:01:31 Merrily

With master's degrees in religion and psychology and a graduate diploma in cultural astronomy at astronomy and Astrology, Rick has a solid foundation for esoteric studies in acquiring fascinating books.

00:01:46 Merrily

That's not all.

00:01:47 Merrily

Rick is also the curator and creator of the very lovely alchemy deck of cards that you can use in your daily meditative practice.

00:01:54 Merrily

Rick, I am so very happy to chat with you on the casual temple.

00:01:59 Rick

Oh, it's my pleasure.

00:02:00 Merrily

Yes.

00:02:02 Merrily

Thank you so.

00:02:03 Merrily

Yeah, I when I reached out to you was 'cause, my husband and I saw your chat or your talk on.

00:02:10 Merrily

At the Seattle Antiquarian Book Fair, and it was about the alchemical text. The 12 keys of Basil Valentin, which already sounds like woo.

00:02:22

Yeah.

00:02:25 Merrily

Yeah, and it was really fun. I thought you were really knowledgeable. And I was like, wow, you basically have, like, if I could go back in time and, like, redo my life, like, all the things you did in your life, I'm like, I would like it to look.

00:02:37 Merrily

It's just so cool.

00:02:40 Rick

Very kind, you say.

00:02:40 Merrily

So yeah.

00:02:42 Merrily

Yeah. So I'm so happy you're here.

00:02:44 Merrily

Sure.

00:02:45 Rick

Thank you. Well, it's a pleasure to be here.

00:02:46

You.

00:02:47 Merrily

Yeah. Thank you.

00:02:48 Rick

Great opportunity and I like what you're doing through podcast.

00:02:53 Merrily

Yes, thank you so much.

00:02:56 Merrily

Well, can you tell us a little bit about would you call it a spiritual journey or sort of, you know, just sort of your journey wherever you want to start with that?

00:03:07 Rick

Sure.

00:03:11 Rick

And feel free to interrupt me when I get too boring.

00:03:14 Rick

But.

00:03:17 Rick

I would say I've always been a a seeker and I can't think of a better word, and I know it's used and overused, but I think it it really.

00:03:26 Merrily

Yeah.

00:03:31 Rick

Depicts what I've been about.

00:03:34 Rick

So my.

00:03:36 Rick

You know, just going back from.

00:03:40 Rick

Earth days. You know, I was raised Catholic.

00:03:45 Rick

Went to Catholic school for three years.

00:03:48 Rick

And in addition to receiving several beatings.

00:03:53 Rick

I also received a very profound.

00:03:59 Rick

Other for God, who for many years I thought was very angry.

00:04:06 Merrily

Yeah, yeah.

00:04:07 Rick

So, but you know, there's there's a lot of things that I tell, you know, I tell the story of my Catholic experience with the.

00:04:15 Rick

Nuns and people have actually started crying and I'm like what?

00:04:20 Rick

For this is a funny story.

00:04:23 Rick

Like, no, you were suffering child abuse.

00:04:26 Rick

So that may be it. But but I think it it kind of played a part.

00:04:32 Rick

Yeah.

00:04:33 Rick

So as I became a teen.

00:04:38 Rick

I rebelled in in many ways.

00:04:42 Rick

But one of them was to leave the Catholic Church.

00:04:46 Rick

Which to my father was very sacred, although he never went or could actually tell you anything about the Catholic Church.

00:04:49 Merrily

Right.

00:04:54 Rick

But, but it was symbolic, right? As those things are.

00:04:56

Yes.

00:04:58 Rick

And when I.

00:05:01 Rick

So I hooked up with evangelical Protestant group who, you know, were very loving people and.

00:05:11 Rick

You know, it fit me at the time I was in Southern California and there was a huge explosion of the Jesus rock'n'roll, if you will.

00:05:22 Rick

So 3 Chaplain Costa Mesa hosted it.

00:05:22

Kelvin.

00:05:26 Rick

I attended.

00:05:27 Rick

There was Melody land with.

00:05:32 Rick

I'd say all sorts of lovable wack jobs.

00:05:37 Rick

But I I I dove deeply.

00:05:40 Rick

You know, I believed Hallelujah.

00:05:45 Rick

By the way, I I.

00:05:49 Rick

Am not a professional musician at this point, but at that time through Calvary Chapel I met lots contacts, lots of pros and you know, they really taught me a lot about music.

00:06:02 Rick

So ended up going to.

00:06:06 Rick

Bible School, if you Will, Grace Christian University and I really went there because I was more interested in archaeology for anything.

00:06:18 Rick

Ended up getting a Bachelor of Theology.

00:06:21 Rick

And.

00:06:25 Rick

You know, just seemed like, well, this is this is where my journey is leading me.

00:06:32 Rick

I'll just Fast forward.

00:06:35 Rick

You know to after having been a minister for a few years and being very deeply involved with that community.

00:06:45 Rick

Having to separate from it.

00:06:48 Rick

It's not that I had to separate, but they had to separate me.

00:06:53 Rick

Because faith was no longer about a belief in God or Jesus.

00:06:59 Rick

It was a belief in.

00:07:02 Rick

God, Jesus, the inerrancy of the Bible.

00:07:08

Mm.

00:07:09 Rick

The God inspired book, you know, you and some of those interpreted as the King James.

00:07:17 Rick

Which only took 1600 years after the good Lord to to be printed.

00:07:22 Merrily

Right.

00:07:24 Rick

But through that whole experience, all I could say is I valued it.

00:07:30 Rick

It taught me to believe in something deeply.

00:07:34 Rick

Even though some of it was just plain wacky.

00:07:39 Rick

But it's OK, I mean.

00:07:43 Rick

I'm fine with it.

00:07:46 Rick

I try to stay in touch with some people, some people.

00:07:50 Rick

Will not stay in touch with me because I have veered from the Lord, whatever that means.

00:07:59 Rick

And I I swear to you, I'm not a drug addict.

00:08:01 Rick

I don't, you know, worship Satan.

00:08:06 Rick

Nevertheless, I I stepped over the lines of being the heretic that I told you about earlier.

00:08:12

Right.

00:08:13 Rick

So so that that's kind of my background for getting involved with.

00:08:19 Rick

Things spiritual because I I really believe strongly in the other.

00:08:24 Rick

As I call it now.

00:08:27 Rick

Because who?

00:08:28 Rick

Who is God?

00:08:29 Rick

I don't know, right?

00:08:33 Rick

I.

00:08:33 Rick

I I do.

00:08:36 Rick

Believe I don't know if belief's the right word. I love to read the Bible.

00:08:44 Rick

Right. I learned Hebrew, or I learned Greek. I learned Latin.

00:08:51 Rick

And my thinking was, hey, if this is really God's word, I need to get to the source.

00:08:56 Merrily

Right.

00:08:57 Rick

So while I don't believe it is a tool to club people with.

00:09:03 Rick

I believe it's a great source of inspiration.

00:09:07 Rick

It's got pictures of our souls in there.

00:09:13 Rick

And I think if anybody wants to be literate in Western culture, the history of Western culture rather.

00:09:21 Rick

You got to reckon with the Bible or you're not going to understand.

00:09:24 Rick

Works of literature.

00:09:26 Rick

You're not going to understand what?

00:09:29 Rick

What kind of forces there were that shaped where civilization is at now.

00:09:36 Rick

But you know, for good or bad.

00:09:40 Rick

So in any case.

00:09:44 Rick

Tearing away from that community of faith.

00:09:50 Rick

Was a killer for me.

00:09:51 Rick

It just I I was just so conflicted.

00:09:56 Rick

I've since gotten over that and I realized one day it's like, well, you know, if there is a God.

00:10:06 Rick

And I I think there is a supreme being of of some kind out there beings. Then he'll just have to show me the way you know and I'll just have to do the best in my life I can.

00:10:20 Rick

So my next foray is into.

00:10:24 Rick

Tai Chi and Qigong.

00:10:28 Rick

So at this crisis of my life, my first marriage is falling apart.

00:10:33 Rick

Faith is gone.

00:10:36 Rick

I started attending.

00:10:39 Rick

These Tai Chi Sessions, which I was in it for the martial arts, right.

00:10:45 Rick

And when I got there the.

00:10:48 Rick

Our master, if you will.

00:10:50 Rick

Was more into.

00:10:53 Rick

The healing aspects of it, the Qigong, the energy work.

00:11:00 Rick

And when I first started, I'm like, dude, I did not sign up for this.

00:11:04 Rick

That's what you're talking about.

00:11:06 Rick

Yeah.

00:11:09 Rick

As it turns out, I got completely sucked in to Chinese medicine.

00:11:16 Rick

And and did the same thing I do with everything. I dive deeply and I go to the bottom.

00:11:21 Rick

If I have questions I will get answers.

00:11:25 Rick

Or if there are no answers, at least realized there's nowhere else I can get answers.

00:11:30 Rick

Mm.

00:11:31 Rick

So when?

00:11:34 Rick

I when I dove into this.

00:11:38 Rick

Real about the history, about the use about the functions.

00:11:43 Rick

Few years later, I decided I was going to go back to school because I wanted to study Union.

00:11:50

Up.

00:11:51 Rick

Psychology.

00:11:53 Rick

And my first thought was I'd love to go back to Switzerland and join the Union Institute.

00:12:00 Rick

And at the time I discovered you had to have $180,000 in the bank.

00:12:07 Rick

Well, I didn't have.

00:12:08 Rick

Right, yeah.

00:12:10 Rick

And all these other requirements in order to attend, there was like all right, that ain't happening.

00:12:16 Rick

And some people introduced me to Pacifica Graduate institute down in Santa Barbara, which.

00:12:23 Rick

Hmm.

00:12:25 Rick

Is a fantastic school. Highly recommended.

00:12:29 Rick

None.

00:12:31 Rick

Anyway, there there's things about that that anybody listening will know. It's a school designed to train therapists. This is also designed to train mythologist to study deep into the depth psychology's Freudian.

00:12:48 Rick

The masters.

00:12:51 Rick

So anyway I went there.

00:12:53 Rick

I went for a therapeutic degree.

00:12:57 Rick

Not, not really wanting to be a therapist, but it was the closest degree in the schedule. Fit my time. My employer paid for me to fly down there once a month to Santa Barbara to to do this.

00:13:10 Rick

So it was while I was at.

00:13:12 Rick

That.

00:13:15 Rick

I was introduced to Western alchemy.

00:13:18 Rick

And as I was introduced to it, I'm like, wait a minute. This is just like Chinese medicine.

00:13:29 Rick

This is trying to, as a Chinese, tried to do discover the elixir of life.

00:13:37 Rick

They also looked at transmutation of metals. You know how to make gold, how to make silver. It was just.

00:13:41 Merrily

Right.

00:13:44 Rick

A mind blower for me.

00:13:47 Rick

To see the similarities between the two.

00:13:52 Rick

Carl Jung was very deep into alchemy as a matter of fact, I would say he was the foremost authority on alchemy. The early 20th century.

00:14:03 Rick

Don't know anybody else who.

00:14:06 Rick

Who dove that deeply and.

00:14:10 Rick

You only believed Alchemy was a metaphor for.

00:14:16 Rick

The development of the soul.

00:14:18 Rick

And in June's development of psychology, the goal of.

00:14:24 Rick

Healing or growth is the rocess that he called individuation.

00:14:29

Mm.

00:14:30 Rick

And he believed that corresponded perfectly with.

00:14:35 Rick

The Alchemist reaching the pinnacle of gold in their transportation of metals or in the spiritual gold, if you will.

00:14:47

Right.

00:14:48 Rick

Balk me.

00:14:51 Rick

This is long.

00:14:52 Rick

I apologize for, but it's kind of my my development how?

00:14:58 Rick

How I got kinda to where I was incidentally, the I spent three years at Pacifica.

00:15:07 Rick

Got my.

00:15:07 Rick

Spent a year in private practice and then had to get out.

00:15:13 Rick

As I discovered, going from a six figure job into therapy, you can expect to make about $5.00 an hour with a master's degree.

00:15:25 Merrily

Right.

00:15:26 Rick

My not only did I not appreciate that, nor did my wife her child.

00:15:29 Rick

So anyway.

00:15:33 Rick

My hat's off to therapists, but there's a lots of fantastic ones, especially here in Seattle.

00:15:39 Rick

Some people that do the the Union work.

00:15:42 Rick

Which I think is the most valuable.

00:15:45 Rick

It's not the only.

00:15:46 Rick

There's lots of great therapies out there, but the only one for me is is the greatest because it is about tending to the soul.

00:15:56 Rick

Mm.

00:15:57 Rick

And so, you know, if I could recapture my life, it's about trying to.

00:16:05

Get.

00:16:06 Rick

That meaning in my.

00:16:07 Rick

Try to get to what my soul is calling for.

00:16:12 Rick

Mm.

00:16:14 Rick

Because I I really believe that's what.

00:16:18 Rick

That's where we are headed.

00:16:21 Rick

Or we should be headed? I should.

00:16:23 Rick

You know, I have opportunity to give Young's advice all the time, and I'm like, you want a you want a job that makes you happy. You want to be happy, forget about it.

00:16:23

Yeah.

00:16:36 Rick

You know you will never have that.

00:16:39 Rick

It does not exist but.

00:16:43 Rick

If you say.

00:16:45 Rick

I want to have meaning in my life.

00:16:47 Rick

I want to have purpose.

00:16:49 Rick

You know, I I have things inside me that just need to grow and develop.

00:16:55 Merrily

Yeah.

00:16:56 Rick

Now you're on to.

00:16:57 Rick

I believe, which is very purposeful and will be meaningful.

00:17:04 Rick

Right. And I, you know, I've just had a lot of experience interacting with other people.

00:17:10 Rick

You know those that have gone down the drugs or, you know, whatever you can imagine is not a good Rd.

00:17:18 Rick

Mm.

00:17:20 Rick

Typically, at the very base of it, they just are directionless.

00:17:24 Rick

They don't know where to go.

00:17:27 Rick

Now I may have gone down some bad roads in the.

00:17:30 Rick

Actually, I maybe did once or twice, but we won't talk about that.

00:17:35 Rick

But.

00:17:40 Rick

In it, I think I stayed off of the really bad roads, primarily because of those damn nuns and my parents just being so.

00:17:53 Rick

So strict so that you know, I was the kind of Catholic that even if you send, I felt guilty like I was somehow my fault.

00:17:55

Hmm.

00:18:02 Merrily

Right.

00:18:03 Rick

So but but it it it contained me, I think from going off to deepenge.

00:18:08 Rick

Hmm.

00:18:10 Rick

But you know, like say, at the base of it was.

00:18:15 Rick

A soul that wanted to be tended.

00:18:18 Rick

So I says specifically my adult life.

00:18:21 Rick

It's tending to the soul that is the most important thing.

00:18:27 Rick

Alchemy is the ultimate metaphor for tending to the soul.

00:18:32 Rick

My pain.

00:18:33 Merrily

Right, yeah.

00:18:36

So.

00:18:36 Rick

All right, I'll take a breath now.

00:18:40 Merrily

Wow.

00:18:41 Merrily

Oh, there's always these things I try to like.

00:18:43 Merrily

Oh yeah, this I wanted to mention that so many things and one of the things was.

00:18:49 Merrily

Something about oh 'cause I just to share a little bit about myself in connection with what you said.

00:18:56 Merrily

My dad.

00:18:58 Merrily

Was Irish Catholic American Irish?

00:19:00 Merrily

My mother Filipino our Filipina so also Catholic. When I was a kid however.

00:19:08 Merrily

It was sort.

00:19:09 Merrily

It was a sort of Catholic right? We we only went to church on, like, Easter and Christmas.

00:19:13 Merrily

Kind of thing.

00:19:14 Merrily

I think.

00:19:15 Rick

Typical American Catholic.

00:19:16 Merrily

Typical American Catholic.

00:19:19 Merrily

But I will say that I it it.

00:19:21 Merrily

I'm very grateful for that experience and you know, my dad later on, he did go to some like fundamentalist Christian churches, which was fun for me, but.

00:19:32 Merrily

It you know, I do appreciate it because it did give me that perspective of, like there is something out there, all these people.

00:19:39 Merrily

At least they think, or they believe that there is something more than like what we're doing on this plane in this.

00:19:46 Merrily

Reality and that always fascinated me as a kid.

00:19:51 Merrily

Even so.

00:19:51 Merrily

And I was a very precocious kid. I read a lot when I was I I mentioned this a few times on the podcast, but I like was I read the Bible several times and I was like 10 years old, like several. I loved it.

00:20:03 Merrily

Loved reading it.

00:20:05 Merrily

Of course I liked.

00:20:07 Merrily

Like gorgeous. And then, like all the Jesus stuff, right?

00:20:10 Merrily

Was all my favorite.

00:20:11 Merrily

The Jesus stuff is amazing.

00:20:15 Merrily

But yeah, you're.

00:20:16 Merrily

Even even the stuff that isn't, you know, perfect like Genesis or the words of Jesus, it's like there is as an adult you do find things in there that's like kind of blows you away if you go back and kind of read some stuff.

00:20:31 Merrily

Like there's interesting things in here.

00:20:36

Yeah.

00:20:37 Rick

Well, you know, I think of, you know, I said I'm a seeker.

00:20:41 Rick

I I think of, you know, Jesus words seek and you shall find knock and the door will be opened.

00:20:49 Rick

And it will be get right.

00:20:51 Rick

Mean it's.

00:20:52 Rick

It's so fundamental.

00:20:54 Merrily

Mm.

00:20:55 Rick

But it's a universal truth, I think.

00:20:58 Merrily

Yeah, for sure.

00:21:00 Merrily

And definitely the idea around like you said like this, I love how you put it 'cause. I didn't think it that way is like just finding your soul or like seeking communion with your soul is really the goal.

00:21:14 Merrily

Of life and you know, in my particular practice, which is more like hermeticism and the Western ceremonial tradition is, you know, your true will right.

00:21:24 Merrily

Is your true will is kind of thing which is. You know you could really just say is your soul.

00:21:30 Merrily

Like in sort of what you were.

00:21:33 Merrily

Kind of aligning.

00:21:34 Merrily

Because I was like, oh, yeah, so so beautiful.

00:21:40

Oh my.

00:21:42 Merrily

Oh, let's see.

00:21:43 Merrily

I think.

00:21:44 Merrily

Those were those were the things I wanted to mention.

00:21:47 Merrily

What you said, yeah.

00:21:50 Merrily

So in your.

00:21:52 Merrily

Journey. Did you have any particular support or guidance? I know you had some, you definitely went to a lot of schooling and teacher years, but was there anybody in particular?

00:22:02 Rick

Yes.

00:22:04

Yes.

00:22:06 Rick

They're probably more than I could mention here, but.

00:22:10

Yeah.

00:22:11 Rick

One of the.

00:22:12 Rick

Standouts for me was at Grace University.

00:22:16 Rick

There was a professor, a fundamentalist professor, Doctor Dale DeWitt.

00:22:23 Rick

Who really taught me how to think critically?

00:22:28 Rick

And it sounds ironic.

00:22:34 Rick

That a religious.

00:22:38 Rick

A religious teacher, who should you know, be following?

00:22:45 Rick

You know what?

00:22:47 Rick

What are you supposed to be following?

00:22:51 Rick

Would would teach us to think more freely.

00:22:57 Rick

And one of the by the way, I love the guy.

00:23:02 Rick

Just love them and he.

00:23:05 Rick

He he's loving me, I think was a transformation as well, but.

00:23:12 Rick

Ended up finishing up a master's degree at.

00:23:17 Rick

And I wrote my thesis basically on.

00:23:25 Rick

This is not very.

00:23:28 Rick

Professional or religious sounding, but the ******** of.

00:23:34 Rick

Believing their sin in an erroneous to the Bible. Or there's a solace scriptura, we only follow the Bible.

00:23:42 Rick

I wrote that thesis.

00:23:45 Rick

With the theory in mind to debunk the notion that you have to believe in an inerrant Bible in order to have a coherent faith.

00:23:56 Rick

And I used, you know, the religious group I was part of, kind of, as you know.

00:24:02 Rick

Father for my, for my whole stick there and I sent him a copy of the thesis.

00:24:10 Rick

And I thought, well, I.

00:24:12 Rick

I've already sort of cut me off anyway.

00:24:16 Rick

See what goes.

00:24:18 Rick

But he, he wrote back some very nice words and he said he did a really great job here.

00:24:26 Rick

He's right. You.

00:24:27 Rick

Disagree with you? You know, but otherwise you know, well done.

00:24:31 Rick

And that just kind of blew me away.

00:24:33 Merrily

Yeah.

00:24:34 Rick

Because within religious communities and it's not just evangelicalism.

00:24:43 Rick

By the way, had a professor at SPU, Frank Spina, who had a set a quote and I'd love to say it was my own, but it was his.

00:24:53 Rick

He would say, what's the difference between an evangelical and a fundamentalist?

00:24:58 Rick

He says will, an evangelical, is a fundamentalist with good manners.

00:25:03 Rick

So.

00:25:05 Rick

Essentially, they have kind of the same, you know, roots, if you will, but are supposed to have good banners.

00:25:09 Merrily

Right.

00:25:13 Rick

I don't know that modern evangelicals are still following the good manner thing, but yeah, whatever.

00:25:21 Rick

In any case, that was that was a therapeutic experience for me to produce that thesis.

00:25:29 Rick

And I got to say, like, did my bachelor's degree did my, you know, first master's degree?

00:25:37 Rick

I had this notion that once I get these degrees, guess what?

00:25:43 Rick

I'm there right?

00:25:46 Rick

The master.

00:25:48 Rick

And and I just remember feeling empty.

00:25:52 Rick

You know, I mean, I was.

00:25:55 Rick

Thrilled that I accomplished something, but it was still an.

00:25:59 Rick

Like damn it, I'm still as dumb as I was before this.

00:26:04 Rick

Maybe a little more knowledge.

00:26:07

Right.

00:26:08 Rick

But and I you know, I've told again many of my mentees.

00:26:14 Rick

It's like I wanted to be the wise master.

00:26:17 Rick

That was my goal in.

00:26:19 Rick

I I was going to be the wise master and I said there's a couple things wrong with that. I said first of all.

00:26:27 Rick

When I share my wisdom.

00:26:30 Rick

With a lot of young people.

00:26:33 Rick

Children included.

00:26:35 Rick

Then it's like whatever old man, right?

00:26:39 Rick

They don't want to hear.

00:26:40 Merrily

Yeah.

00:26:40 Rick

But I got it.

00:26:41 Rick

I've got the secrets of the universe and you don't even want it.

00:26:46 Rick

The other.

00:26:46 Rick

Is after a lot of years of study, right?

00:26:54 Rick

I don't feel like I know enough.

00:26:58 Rick

Now, in interacting with other people I know I know more than most.

00:27:05

Right.

00:27:06 Rick

But it's not enough and I don't know that it ever will be enough.

00:27:11 Rick

Mean, particularly when.

00:27:14 Rick

The history of the world keeps.

00:27:16 Rick

I mean, archaeology keeps turning things up that reshape how we thought about the past.

00:27:24 Rick

Or how we were forced to.

00:27:27 Rick

In a past.

00:27:28 Rick

Right anyway.

00:27:28 Rick

So.

00:27:32 Rick

We we may not be able to say that I am wise and all knowing, but we can say that I'm now old. So there you go.

00:27:42 Rick

And and whereas in my younger days you you would want to argue with me, I'd. I'd take it on. I'd I'd fight full force right now, somebody says.

00:27:56 Rick

Yeah. Well, that that seems like a dumb.

00:27:58 Rick

I just have to say, you know, you may be right.

00:28:04 Rick

It's just, I don't know. It's just the years. Just give you a different perspective on things.

00:28:09 Merrily

Yeah. Oh, gosh.

00:28:12 Merrily

Oh wait, I'm trying to think of the. Yeah, when you were talking about.

00:28:18 Merrily

Just sort of.

00:28:19 Merrily

Oh yes, I'm going to be the master.

00:28:20 Merrily

Going to be this is.

00:28:24 Merrily

Definitely when you start on any of these sort of paths like me included, I'm like, Oh yes, at least in the Western ceremonial tradition. You're like, oh, yes, I'm going to get in contact with my holy guardian Angel. That's.

00:28:36 Merrily

Check I'm going to proceed to go through across the.

00:28:40 Merrily

Check I'm going to like, you know, like check, check, check and then as you do this you're just kind of like why am I doing that?

00:28:44

Yes.

00:28:48 Merrily

Why am I doing that? Because.

00:28:51 Merrily

I want some sort of validation like oh I like in your case you're like I'm going to get all these degrees.

00:28:57 Merrily

Going to know.

00:28:58 Merrily

I'm going to be so wise.

00:29:00 Merrily

I'm going to be able to share all this beautiful information with people and it's going to help them, right?

00:29:06 Merrily

But yeah, you're like, wait a minute. I think it's the eye that really wants.

00:29:11 Merrily

These things right?

00:29:13 Rick

Yeah, yeah.

00:29:14 Merrily

So I love your perspective of like you share the wisdom. Kids don't really care about it.

00:29:21 Merrily

But you know, I'm sure you know deep in the future, they're gonna think back on it. Like, you know what I think?

00:29:27 Merrily

I think Rick had something there.

00:29:29 Rick

Right. Yeah, that's. I'm dead, you know.

00:29:33 Merrily

Hopefully before that he they can ask you more questions.

00:29:36 Merrily

But yeah.

00:29:37 Merrily

And yeah, this is so great.

00:29:39 Merrily

Love that perspective.

00:29:41 Merrily

On things.

00:29:43 Rick

Remember my.

00:29:45 Rick

My Tai chi.

00:29:48 Rick

Master.

00:29:49 Rick

And there's many people in town who know Doctor Wong.

00:29:50 Merrily

Mm.

00:29:54 Rick

They know who I'm talking about.

00:29:58 Rick

But he was a guy that had a lot of great influence on me.

00:30:03 Rick

And I remember one of the things that.

00:30:07 Rick

That we learned was it's called, I think, 7 star.

00:30:11 Rick

I'm not even sure I could do it today, but at the time I got very good at it.

00:30:17 Rick

It's a series of punches and blocks and you do it with another person and you move around in the bagwash circle. Once you know super.

00:30:26 Rick

Woo woo stuff.

00:30:27 Rick

I mean, I love. I absolutely loved it.

00:30:31 Rick

So one day I'm the more senior student and we're in class time and Doctor Wong picks me to do the Seven Star boxing.

00:30:42 Rick

So I get up there and.

00:30:45 Rick

I'm doing.

00:30:46 Rick

I mean, I was the master.

00:30:49 Rick

I was like.

00:30:52 Rick

Punching and blocking it was just beautiful and we're moving and doing all the steps.

00:30:59 Rick

And in my mind, I'm like, I am really awesome.

00:31:05

Yes.

00:31:05 Rick

So as as I'm being really awesome.

00:31:09 Rick

I feel these little taps come up and go.

00:31:13 Rick

In between our boxing, he slapped my face.

00:31:15 Merrily

Right.

00:31:18 Rick

And it's like, how is he doing that?

00:31:21 Merrily

That's amazing. Yeah.

00:31:22 Rick

Is he doing that?

00:31:24 Rick

And anyway, I just started laughing because it was like, OK.

00:31:28 Rick

Master, I get it.

00:31:29 Rick

I'm not the master.

00:31:30

Right.

00:31:31 Rick

Got you.

00:31:34 Rick

But it again at the time it did.

00:31:38 Rick

It didn't matter for me that I wasn't the master.

00:31:41

Yeah.

00:31:43 Rick

It was more a.

00:31:45 Rick

Just kind of pat on the back. Keep yourself humble, you know.

00:31:50 Rick

Well, at some things, but someone's.

00:31:51 Rick

Can be.

00:31:52 Rick

And this is the guy. Incidentally, I think that session ended up. I was on my back and out of breath.

00:32:00 Rick

Flung on the ground.

00:32:05 Rick

Yeah, Doctor Wong was one of those one of those guys that.

00:32:11 Rick

Helped heal me right when I needed healing that I didn't even know that I needed.

00:32:15 Merrily

Right.

00:32:17 Rick

And took me to.

00:32:21 Rick

Just to some amazing places, one of which was.

00:32:27 Rick

A and stop me anytime here, merrily.

00:32:31 Merrily

Can you please?

00:32:34 Rick

I'll tell you a very significant.

00:32:36 Rick

We're we're sitting in class. When we were doing.

00:32:41 Rick

Tibetan meditation and while we're doing it.

00:32:46 Rick

I entered into what I can only describe as either a hallucination, a dream state of vision. Who knows?

00:32:58 Rick

Right. But in there I was descending and it was like almost like a not a telephone pole, a totem pole.

00:33:10 Rick

Yeah, that that sounds better than a telephone pole and.

00:33:16 Rick

And I was seeing these these images of Native Americans, of Vikings, of Bayans just all of these civilizations.

00:33:28 Rick

And.

00:33:31 Rick

And then I then I like popped back into the class and I looked around and I was just embarrassed.

00:33:38 Rick

Like, Oh my God, I've just.

00:33:41 Rick

I just fell.

00:33:42 Rick

Had a dream for like 1/2 hour.

00:33:45 Merrily

Right.

00:33:46 Rick

As it turns out.

00:33:46 Rick

Was only.

00:33:47 Rick

A couple minutes.

00:33:49 Rick

And nobody even noticed that I was having this cosmic experience.

00:33:55 Rick

So.

00:33:58 Rick

I don't know how many years later was two or three years later.

00:34:02 Rick

When I first went to visit Pacifica, it was.

00:34:07 Rick

Late at night, it's foggy and I'm driving there, but I come on the grounds and out in front of the campus.

00:34:16 Rick

Is a modern totem pole with Native Americans, Vikings.

00:34:24 Rick

All, all of these civilizations that I had experienced in that.

00:34:30 Rick

Transtream hallucination?

00:34:33 Rick

Wackiness. Whatever you want to call.

00:34:34 Rick

I mean, it happened and it was amazing, so.

00:34:37

Oh.

00:34:40 Rick

When I got there and I saw that it was like.

00:34:45 Rick

All right, I'm on the right Rd.

00:34:47 Merrily

Yeah, I.

00:34:48 Rick

Mean. I don't know what it means, but but I'm on the right.

00:34:51

Yeah.

00:34:52 Rick

But Doctor Wong was was a pathway for me.

00:34:57 Rick

Mm.

00:34:58 Rick

You know to get there.

00:34:59 Rick

And he was he.

00:35:01 Rick

Those of you know him, he's sometimes difficult to understand.

00:35:05 Rick

His Chinese is very strong.

00:35:09 Rick

And English sometimes not so good.

00:35:13 Rick

But when you spend time with them, you get to get to learn to know what he's saying.

00:35:17

Yes.

00:35:17 Rick

He doesn't say anything, he just expects you're going.

00:35:21 Rick

Do it.

00:35:22 Rick

You know you're going to go.

00:35:25 Rick

Do what what he needs you to do.

00:35:29 Rick

It is a really interesting guy. You ask him or I asked him, you know, early on because.

00:35:36 Rick

When I'm sorting things and trying to figure things out, I just ask dumb questions like so. Doctor Wong, are you a Buddhist or Taoist?

00:35:47 Rick

He's like, yes.

00:35:50 Rick

But but I thought I heard you say you were a Christian, yes.

00:35:55 Rick

Right. So I'm going through these.

00:35:57 Rick

You know, all I can think of and.

00:36:03 Rick

His point was he believes that that all religions or spiritual forces.

00:36:12 Rick

Again, should be leading to the same thing, but at the time it was, it was hard, I mean.

00:36:15 Rick

Mm.

00:36:19 Rick

Especially those who have been in.

00:36:23 Rick

Fundamentalist with good.

00:36:25 Rick

Group things are kind of black and white, and there's not a lot of grey.

00:36:28 Merrily

Yeah.

00:36:31 Rick

So to hear, hear this guy say he was part of all that? It was kind of like, wow.

00:36:38 Rick

I got to think about that, you know, so I and by the way, I think I could answer what he answered at that time to me.

00:36:40 Merrily

Huh.

00:36:47 Rick

Those would be my answers.

00:36:50 Rick

Right, I don't.

00:36:54 Rick

I don't dislike.

00:36:58 Rick

Fundamentalists, Mormons. You know, whatever the group you put the tag on it.

00:37:05 Rick

I see.

00:37:06 Rick

Everybody is religious. Whatever values have errors and flaws and it's like.

00:37:14 Rick

Keep keep pushing towards the development of your soul.

00:37:20 Rick

In a non.

00:37:22 Rick

Greedy way.

00:37:24 Rick

And you're going to.

00:37:26 Rick

You're going to whatever it is.

00:37:29 Rick

Yeah. So.

00:37:33 Rick

All right, we're out of home, #7.

00:37:36 Rick

Right down.

00:37:36 Merrily

Well, I like.

00:37:37 Merrily

The story about Doctor Wong and you learning the martial arts was it Qigong?

00:37:44 Merrily

And Tai chi.

00:37:47 Merrily

Yeah.

00:37:47 Rick

She is the art form.

00:37:51 Rick

Known as the medicinal.

00:37:54 Rick

In reality, it's all parts on unit, right?

00:37:57 Merrily

That makes sense.

00:37:59 Rick

Or in the traditional Chinese way it is.

00:38:03 Merrily

Yeah.

00:38:05 Merrily

Yeah, I think that cause.

00:38:07 Merrily

Tying to something you said previously about.

00:38:12 Merrily

I think it was Jung and sort of the I think the archetypes or the mythologies like I think that's what people can go sort of on to start those journeys. And I think people need them.

00:38:27 Merrily

I everybody needs those.

00:38:30 Merrily

Because it seems like when you're kind of this lonely soul is it's a lonely human.

00:38:35 Merrily

Nice to hear stories of.

00:38:38 Merrily

People accomplishing things in a grand way.

00:38:43 Merrily

And tie that to sort of your own individual life and then that can open up.

00:38:49 Merrily

The different paths that you you as an individual want to go down and I think it's right like all these different religions, all these different spiritual practices, whatever you want to call them, I think.

00:39:01 Merrily

There's definitely some truth in there, that is.

00:39:04 Merrily

Works for somebody.

00:39:07 Merrily

Yeah.

00:39:09 Merrily

So I think those are those are great things to consider for sure.

00:39:13 Rick

Yeah, but.

00:39:14 Rick

You, you know, again using Jung as my platform or whatever. You know, you believe that there were archetypes, right?

00:39:25 Merrily

Yeah.

00:39:25 Rick

Were the the values.

00:39:28 Rick

In the human soup, if you will.

00:39:31 Merrily

Right.

00:39:31 Rick

And they came and went with each one of us.

00:39:34 Rick

They they were recognizable and they were.

00:39:39 Rick

They're valuable.

00:39:40 Merrily

Mm.

00:39:41 Rick

So if you go just in the history of literature that that we know of today, right?

00:39:49 Rick

Whether it's Gilgamesh or the Iliad, the Odyssey.

00:39:56 Rick

Virgils Aeneid, which was the Roman version of the theodicy.

00:40:02 Rick

Dante's inferno. All of these books Milton's Paradise Lost, I mean.

00:40:10 Rick

The the stories in alchemy, the development of alchemy, it all comes back to the some of the fundamental same things.

00:40:19 Rick

What's the meaning of your life?

00:40:21 Rick

Right. How do you determine what the meaning is?

00:40:25 Rick

And sometimes the meaning is you don't know what the meaning.

00:40:29 Rick

You just keep going and in the cyclops along the way and you run into, you know, the sirens that don't want to let you pass. You run into people that want to kill you.

00:40:31

Yeah.

00:40:42 Rick

And it's all part of your development.

00:40:48 Rick

Even though these are horrible things which I wish upon nobody.

00:40:53 Rick

Everybody I've talked to has, through these horrible things, come up with amazing gifts.

00:41:01 Rick

The gifts from God.

00:41:03 Rick

Now don't get me wrong, I don't want any more gifts, I really don't.

00:41:08 Rick

But they still seem to come but.

00:41:13 Rick

But but that's, you know, kind of the real difference I think between humans and primates.

00:41:23 Rick

Which as as time goes on, I think there's.

00:41:27 Rick

A very thin line between those, I mean, we're literally we're just we're animals.

00:41:30

Yeah.

00:41:33 Rick

We are animals, you.

00:41:35 Rick

Oh no. Rick were developed and you know we're scientific. And we got, you know, chat.

00:41:42 Rick

Chat and deep seek and you know we're we're on the edge.

00:41:47 Rick

We are.

00:41:48 Rick

And here's how you know we're animals.

00:41:51 Rick

Everything we do is tied to emotions.

00:41:55

Yes.

00:41:56 Rick

Murders that we commit the, you know, sexual issues that happen.

00:42:03 Rick

These are all based primal values and the only thing that keeps us going.

00:42:07

Right.

00:42:11 Rick

Is to have some kind of rock, some kind of meaning and purpose to our life that can get us past it to something higher. And that to me is unbelievable.

00:42:16

Hmm.

00:42:26 Rick

Unbel.

00:42:28 Rick

That we get to experience that.

00:42:31 Rick

Mm.

00:42:32 Rick

When we're going through the hard times, it's not unbelievable. It's ******* me off.

00:42:36 Merrily

Right.

00:42:40

Yeah.

00:42:41 Rick

But it really is something of great value and I I don't know if I mentioned this.

00:42:51 Rick

We talked about alchemy before, but basically my belief in humankind is we're all we'll just say fudged up.

00:43:03 Rick

And and we.

00:43:04 Rick

And it's because we're all flawed.

00:43:07 Rick

And where we get into problems within society is when I think I'm better than you or you think you're better than me.

00:43:16 Rick

The fact is, we're all a hair away from being apes.

00:43:22 Rick

I know that's disturbing to some people, but it is the truth.

00:43:24 Merrily

Yeah.

00:43:28 Rick

I mean the amount of slaughter that goes on today in this world, slaughter, absolute slaughter, hundreds of thousands of people every year being slaughtered our, you know, our children are being trafficked.

00:43:42 Rick

Over a year, the United States is right in the middle of that.

00:43:47 Rick

It is not a pure kind world. It's evil.

00:43:54 Rick

There's a lot of evil there and it's because people are operating.

00:43:57 Rick

Based on prime values instead of meaningful.

00:44:02 Rick

Values in my.

00:44:04 Rick

Meaningful values. You should be looking at how do we develop our soul?

00:44:06 Merrily

Right.

00:44:11 Rick

How do we develop our society?

00:44:13 Rick

What can we do for the future generations?

00:44:16 Rick

Mm.

00:44:20 Merrily

Sorry, no, I, well, yeah. Well.

00:44:23 Merrily

I like thinking about how we're just this much away from being.

00:44:28 Merrily

Our, our we are primates essentially but.

00:44:30 Merrily

But and then maybe think of like, which is really goofy, I like.

00:44:35 Merrily

I watch a lot of Instagram reels right with a lot of animals I.

00:44:38 Merrily

Animals are wonderful, but you watch animals and you're like even just like a bird, right?

00:44:43 Merrily

You think a bird?

00:44:44 Merrily

They.

00:44:46 Merrily

Act. They have such personality to them, you know. And so it's like there isn't really that much.

00:44:52 Merrily

A.

00:44:53 Merrily

They, you know, they or your cat or your dog like, or even a primate, they have like these person personality.

00:45:01 Merrily

So how much different are?

00:45:03 Merrily

Yeah. How much different are you? I don't know.

00:45:05 Merrily

So yeah.

00:45:06 Rick

Right, right.

00:45:09 Merrily

And maybe it's our mind that it's because like all like, like you said, we were slaughter.

00:45:14 Merrily

Are we doing?

00:45:15 Merrily

We're slaughtering all these people.

00:45:16 Merrily

Doesn't make any sense.

00:45:19 Merrily

At least with animals, you feel like? Yeah, with an animal. They're like, you're in my territory, you know.

00:45:24

Like we're.

00:45:25 Merrily

Gonna have to take care of you or.

00:45:25 Rick

Yep.

00:45:27 Merrily

But yeah, we just making yourself better than the other person seems to be sort of the crux of the issue here.

00:45:35 Rick

Yeah.

00:45:35 Merrily

Oh man.

00:45:37 Rick

Well, to to to tie into alchemy fuel, right?

00:45:42

Connection.

00:45:46 Rick

This is where I think during the periods we call the Renaissance, right?

00:45:51 Rick

Italian, the English, the European.

00:45:54 Rick

This is where people really got reflective and they really wanted to.

00:45:59

Hmm.

00:46:02 Rick

Be better human beings.

00:46:04 Merrily

Right.

00:46:05 Rick

And so.

00:46:08 Rick

For me, alchemy was just one of those ways that a lot of people utilized to become better human beings.

00:46:18 Rick

Was using that metaphor.

00:46:22 Rick

Now, there were lots of greedy ones who wanted gold.

00:46:28 Rick

And you know, I think I talked about Rudolph of Hungary, right?

00:46:34

Mm.

00:46:35 Rick

Rudolph the second.

00:46:36 Rick

He hired hundreds of alchemists and some of them he just locked.

00:46:42 Rick

Right.

00:46:42 Rick

And.

00:46:44 Rick

You work on producing.

00:46:46 Rick

You work on producing the medicinal elixirs, and you guys come up, you know, with the.

00:46:55 Rick

The not the tree of life, but the the fountain of life, right? So.

00:47:02 Merrily

Mm.

00:47:04 Rick

But but the whys, the really wise ones knew that it was.

00:47:11 Rick

A higher purpose that that they were going towards incentivizing reminds me of when I was reading about the Chinese alchemy.

00:47:22 Rick

Didn't call it that by the way, Chinese alchemy.

00:47:27 Rick

As they were trying to develop the.

00:47:30 Rick

Uh.

00:47:32 Rick

Oh, there's a word for.

00:47:33 Rick

I can't think of it was like the the river of life, the inner life.

00:47:37 Rick

About an eternal elixir that will let you live forever. Eternally youth.

00:47:42

Oh.

00:47:45 Rick

They.

00:47:46 Rick

A lot of experimenting, right?

00:47:49 Rick

And Mercury, as in Western alchemy, also in Chinese.

00:47:57 Rick

Medicine Mercury was like super.

00:48:00 Rick

And they experimented the heck with out of it, and I remember reading about a lot of Chinese prisoners died.

00:48:10 Rick

During the experimental phases of this realizing that.

00:48:15 Rick

Well, make maybe Mercury isn't that that eternal life thing?

00:48:22 Rick

Right. Yeah. 'cause it.

00:48:24 Rick

It killed people anyway, yeah.

00:48:28 Rick

Part of human development.

00:48:31 Merrily

Yes. Yeah.

00:48:34 Merrily

And the fortunate part of human.

00:48:36 Merrily

How about we go forward and not do those things?

00:48:38

Yes.

00:48:41 Merrily

Oh boy.

00:48:43 Merrily

So I did want to talk about books. One of the books that came to mind as you were talking about.

00:48:49 Merrily

You know, sort of finding meaning in your life is.

00:48:52 Merrily

But I'm sure you've heard of it, and you may have read of it or read it is a man search for meaning.

00:48:57 Merrily

Viktor Frankel, which is amazing book.

00:49:01 Merrily

It's essentially that it's, you know, in the if folks don't know, Viktor Frankel. I believe he was in the involved in the Holocaust in the camps, but.

00:49:12 Merrily

He was basically like, how do you find meaning even in this horrific?

00:49:18 Merrily

Circumstance. What do you do?

00:49:22 Merrily

And then it made me also think about like how I'm always jealous of hearing stories of, like, 'cause. I love music and hearing musicians like, Oh yes, I was six years old and I happened to see a guitar in the window, and my mom bought it for me.

00:49:35 Merrily

Therefore, I am a musician.

00:49:37 Merrily

I'm like, Dang, that must've been awesome.

00:49:39 Merrily

Like know.

00:49:41 Merrily

Immediately. What year we're going to do.

00:49:42 Merrily

So jealous of that?

00:49:45 Merrily

But yeah, I think.

00:49:48 Merrily

For to find your own.

00:49:49 Merrily

It isn't always that easy or that at least that that clear.

00:49:55 Merrily

And so that is basically it, like you said of like Jesus quote is seek and be you shall find.

00:50:02 Merrily

Think it's just seek the seeking is the important piece of that not necessarily the finding, but the seeking.

00:50:10 Merrily

So in saying that 'cause I mentioned a book where there's some pivotal.

00:50:15 Merrily

Books that you would recommend to some folks to expand their mind.

00:50:24 Rick

If somebody gets through Viktor Frankel's man search for meaning.

00:50:32 Rick

That's hard to top, but that is a brilliant book. You know you.

00:50:39 Rick

You bring out a really great one.

00:50:43 Rick

I have to narrow down in my mind books because sometimes I don't know if you've ever had.

00:50:49 Rick

You read a book. It's like, really inspires you and you go and share it. And people are like, huh?

00:50:55 Merrily

Yes.

00:50:56 Rick

Whatever.

00:50:57 Merrily

Exactly. Yep.

00:51:01 Rick

And in my case.

00:51:05 Rick

You know I've.

00:51:06 Rick

I've read voraciously all my life.

00:51:10 Rick

And I I often find that I'll pick up a book and.

00:51:15 Rick

Afterwards or in the middle of it, it's like, wait, I've already read this book.

00:51:20

Hmm.

00:51:22 Merrily

Oh wait, I love gape when I do that.

00:51:24 Rick

Yeah, I the computer up here gets, you know, a little jammed up at times.

00:51:28 Merrily

Yep.

00:51:31 Rick

Somebody recently asked me and I have recommended this in the therapeutic setting as well.

00:51:39 Rick

You know what's a good book to read? While I'm going going through this?

00:51:46 Rick

And one of them is Lord of the Rings.

00:51:52 Rick

And for me, honestly, I get more excited watching the Peter Jackson films.

00:51:58 Rick

But you know, for those that like to read and and then we'll talk about, OK.

00:52:06 Rick

You know, Ferro's got this ring.

00:52:08 Rick

Got to get it to Mordor.

00:52:11 Rick

And look at all the trips and traps that he has to go through.

00:52:16 Rick

Right.

00:52:18 Rick

And so.

00:52:20 Rick

The point of my story is instead of reading that literally, start to think about it metaphorically, right?

00:52:28 Rick

What does that really mean?

00:52:29 Rick

Does in your.

00:52:31 Rick

Do you ever run across things that you hadn't planned on or you didn't like?

00:52:37 Rick

I mean, I think that's all of us, right?

00:52:41 Rick

And it's it's just.

00:52:44 Rick

A way to help people think differently about about life.

00:52:51 Rick

Because once, once he's once you start to think about your own life metaphorically.

00:52:57 Merrily

Yes.

00:52:58 Rick

Then.

00:52:59 Rick

And I'll talk about Mythopoetic thoughts in a minute.

00:53:04 Rick

Mm.

00:53:05 Rick

Start to.

00:53:07 Rick

So when you're in the office and you've got somebody you're working with, you just can't stand them.

00:53:14 Rick

Backstabbing, conniving, whatever they are, right?

00:53:18 Merrily

Yeah.

00:53:19 Rick

That's seated now.

00:53:22 Rick

That's that's the evil guy.

00:53:23 Merrily

Yep, it's Sarah.

00:53:24 Rick

That's the evil person in your store.

00:53:26 Rick

So yeah, so.

00:53:28 Rick

So so how do you get past that?

00:53:31 Rick

And for most people, the hard part is, well, how do I get past that?

00:53:36 Rick

And for me, I I just felt back, you know, look at it like it's a story.

00:53:43 Rick

At it, like it's happy to someone else.

00:53:45 Rick

Would you recommend?

00:53:47 Rick

Often people have the solutions for themselves right inside, but they're afraid to reach out.

00:53:54 Rick

Well, they've never.

00:53:54

Mm.

00:53:55 Rick

Or never been challenged to.

00:53:57 Rick

Mm.

00:54:01 Rick

Another series of books that I highly recommend and some people think I'm a complete dork for this.

00:54:14 Rick

We've we've already established you can call me about whatever name, and I'm just not going to get excited about it.

00:54:21 Rick

The Tony hillerman.

00:54:24 Rick

Little novels.

00:54:26 Rick

About the d'ange.

00:54:30 Rick

The Denise stories.

00:54:32 Rick

Navajo, you know that take place down in the Southwest and he's got native police chief.

00:54:43 Merrily

So the black winds are something that that show is based off of dark winds.

00:54:43

Native.

00:54:47 Rick

Yes, yes, dark.

00:54:49 Merrily

OK.

00:54:49 Merrily

Winds.

00:54:50 Rick

Yes, was based off that.

00:54:53 Rick

Tony Hillerman novels to me are a.

00:54:58 Rick

Matter of fact, I've thought of maybe just one of the communities here getting people together just to talk about some of the Hillerman novels.

00:55:07 Rick

Because he approaches the.

00:55:11 Rick

Native religion, which I hesitate to use that word because don't use that word.

00:55:15 Merrily

Right.

00:55:18 Rick

It's just their way of life, right?

00:55:21

Yeah.

00:55:21 Rick

But it is a way rich in meaning and culture and and just so deep for me as a non name.

00:55:32 Rick

I've found so much comfort in Hillerman.

00:55:37 Rick

Just seeing things through his eyes.

00:55:41 Rick

Seeing things the way that.

00:55:44 Rick

That are right in. So for example.

00:55:49 Rick

You know, we westerners, we like to idealize the natives like, oh, well, you know, this kind of curing session, it's gonna be.

00:55:54 Merrily

Great.

00:55:57 Rick

Care of.

00:55:58

Well.

00:56:00 Rick

As you read these novels, you find out.

00:56:04 Rick

There's not a lot of black and white.

00:56:07 Rick

There is some black and white, but it's not always about black and white.

00:56:11 Rick

About same people coming for healing that were.

00:56:18 Rick

That are bad, right?

00:56:20 Rick

Herders, maybe they're killers. Maybe they're.

00:56:23 Rick

But, but they're coming back for a ceremony that they know they need, right?

00:56:30 Rick

It's that the soul again calling out.

00:56:33 Rick

You may go down some dark roads, but your soul's telling you. You need this.

00:56:39 Rick

Or you need to go back to this.

00:56:42 Rick

So.

00:56:45 Rick

Uh.

00:56:47 Rick

Yeah, anyway.

00:56:50 Rick

I go down rabbit.

00:56:51 Rick

I apologize, but yes, so holkin Hillerman CS Lewis. I had a a teacher who wrote her PhD on the Chronicles of Narnia and some kind of teaching method for children.

00:57:07 Merrily

Right here.

00:57:07 Rick

And she was the most one of the most fascinating teachers.

00:57:12 Rick

But all those books, they contain these archetypal values that we're looking for.

00:57:19 Rick

Showing how people in different settings are achieving those archetypal values, and it's messy.

00:57:25 Rick

I mean it is not a a clear path.

00:57:25 Merrily

Yeah.

00:57:31 Merrily

Yeah.

00:57:32 Rick

I I remember.

00:57:34 Rick

I'm sure you're familiar with the late Ram DAS.

00:57:40 Rick

But a friend of mine who's just enthralled with him, and I'm like him.

00:57:45 Rick

Whatever.

00:57:46 Rick

Just go away, you Krishna crazy.

00:57:52 Rick

And I heard.

00:57:55 Rick

I heard Rhonda say something one time that said.

00:58:00 Rick

You think you're enlightened?

00:58:02 Rick

Why don't you go to your visit? Your family of origin for a week, right?

00:58:10 Rick

And I was like.

00:58:11 Merrily

Wow, it's so true.

00:58:12 Rick

Wow.

00:58:15 Merrily

Push those buttons.

00:58:17 Rick

I know it was like guilty.

00:58:18

Yeah.

00:58:21

But.

00:58:22 Merrily

Oh.

00:58:22 Rick

But you know that term nature we're trying to make ourselves better.

00:58:26 Rick

Trying to get out of.

00:58:27 Rick

We're trying to get out of the mud and.

00:58:30 Rick

It is a certain.

00:58:31 Rick

We're just never getting out of.

00:58:34 Merrily

Mm.

00:58:35 Rick

Rise above it.

00:58:35 Rick

Yes.

00:58:36 Merrily

Yeah.

00:58:36 Rick

Are we going to be free of?

00:58:38 Rick

Yeah, probably not.

00:58:42 Merrily

Those hooks are deep, I think for sure.

00:58:47 Rick

None.

00:58:47

Yeah.

00:58:50 Rick

Yeah, sorry.

00:58:52 Merrily

No, no.

00:58:52 Rick

I I'm just what books are?

00:58:53 Rick

Going through my mind.

00:58:54 Merrily

I know there's so I love that you are recommending what like like fiction books, books, books.

00:59:01 Merrily

'Cause I especially, since we're talking about archetypes and stuff, that's such a great. Those are such great recommendations.

00:59:07 Merrily

Surprising, since we're talking about alchemy that people are like, oh, interesting. Maybe recommending those.

00:59:14 Merrily

And I like that I I've seen the Darkwing series. I have not read Hillerman, but now you piqued my interest.

00:59:21 Merrily

And then you describing sort of like these bad people, like going to the IT sounded like they go to the community to get healing and right like.

00:59:29 Merrily

It's normal and then I'm sure the healers are like sure man, you definitely.

00:59:34 Merrily

Some healing.

00:59:35 Merrily

Let's do this.

00:59:36 Rick

Right.

00:59:36 Merrily

Whereas like that's not how we treat things in the Western, especially in America, we don't do that.

00:59:44 Merrily

We just put you away and get you away from everybody.

00:59:48 Merrily

Yeah. So that's fascinating.

00:59:49 Merrily

Like.

00:59:50 Merrily

I like that thinking about.

00:59:52 Merrily

So now you definitely piqued my interest about reading those.

00:59:58

Well.

01:00:01 Rick

You know, a lot of the Union followers, folks that started Pacifica taught there whatever, right?

01:00:09 Rick

They talk a lot about mythopoeia thinking.

01:00:14 Rick

Right, right.

01:00:15 Rick

And.

01:00:20 Rick

And that simply is.

01:00:23 Rick

Thinking in a mythological sort of setting, pulling on those archetypes from stories we know.

01:00:29

Right.

01:00:31 Rick

Poetic, the poetry.

01:00:34 Rick

Of.

01:00:36 Rick

Being able to receive information which has done so brilliantly through.

01:00:41 Rick

Through.

01:00:42 Rick

Herman Hessey is another one.

01:00:43 Rick

Brilliant. Just unbelievably brilliant. But I digress. So.

01:00:50 Rick

This mythopoetic thinking is something that I think.

01:00:55 Rick

We need to return to more of it in our culture, especially especially in terms of technology, right?

01:01:06 Rick

I mean right now the the technology giants ruled the world.

01:01:11 Rick

I'm only just happy I bought some of their stock a long time ago.

01:01:15 Rick

Not enough to hold it out of everything.

01:01:21 Rick

But this notion that, you know, science.

01:01:28 Rick

Or.

01:01:30 Rick

You know, data and facts are going to save.

01:01:32 Rick

Well.

01:01:34 Rick

If there's one thing we know that is we do have one Bible.

01:01:41 Rick

But many interpretations.

01:01:43 Merrily

8 yes.

01:01:44 Rick

Right. So if that's your data set, it's flawed.

01:01:49

Right.

01:01:50 Rick

Because it's not.

01:01:50 Rick

Clear.

01:01:53 Rick

Then if you want to try to define things scientifically, you can describe things. You can describe emotions you can describe.

01:02:05 Rick

You know what you think God is or why your mind thinks there's a God, but it doesn't really answer anything, right?

01:02:16 Rick

I'm not putting down science at all.

01:02:19 Rick

I'm I'm a big believer in science.

01:02:21 Rick

It.

01:02:22 Rick

I mean, hey, if you could prove something, let's do it.

01:02:26 Rick

But the fact is.

01:02:29 Rick

But it goes back to where animals.

01:02:33 Rick

Hello. What speaks to our soul are those archetypal images. Those archetypal values are that poetic kind of thinking, so that when you.

01:02:48 Rick

Want to read Genesis in the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth.

01:02:52 Rick

It isn't a science lesson on how God put together the.

01:02:59 Rick

The world it's like.

01:03:02 Rick

Yeah, the world was created with meaning and purpose.

01:03:08 Rick

Mm.

01:03:09 Rick

And, but unfortunately, the fundamentalist still want to argue about, you know what that purpose is.

01:03:15 Rick

But they're missing.

01:03:17 Rick

They're absolutely missing the mythopoetic value.

01:03:17

Yeah.

01:03:22 Rick

And you know, as a therapist.

01:03:25 Rick

I see that when people get on the mythopoeic.

01:03:29 Rick

Level the it's much easier for them to be able to heal.

01:03:35 Rick

Mean you take a look at children.

01:03:36 Rick

Don't have.

01:03:39 Rick

The the wherewithal the data set, the communication levels to tell you what's going on with them. By the way, I did my internship with a children's clinic in Port Townsend, jumping Miles Children Center.

01:03:55 Rick

Plus for.

01:03:56 Rick

They.

01:03:56 Rick

They're God's work.

01:04:00 Rick

Let me tell you.

01:04:02 Rick

Really. You know, children can come in and.

01:04:05 Rick

You know they have these issues and and we parents, when our children have problems, we sit on them say OK what's wrong?

01:04:14 Rick

Spill it right?

01:04:15 Rick

A lot of times the kids don't know what's wrong.

01:04:18 Rick

Right. But we do know that when parents are having issues.

01:04:25 Rick

Or problems kids are gonna.

01:04:27 Rick

Typically one of two things, or sometimes both.

01:04:30 Rick

They're going to have stomach pain and they're going to have new allergies.

01:04:36 Rick

Oh, how isn't that interesting?

01:04:37 Merrily

That's fascinating.

01:04:39 Rick

But our way to get at solving the problems is, well, we got to do this scientifically, right?

01:04:46 Merrily

Right.

01:04:46 Rick

You tell. Give me the.

01:04:48 Rick

You know, you tell me what the things are or people come to the therapist, right?

01:04:53 Rick

Hi.

01:04:54 Rick

I got this problem.

01:04:55 Rick

I I need a prescription.

01:04:56 Rick

Can you write me something, doc? It's like.

01:05:02 Rick

That's not how this works.

01:05:04 Rick

This works because we're we are those animals.

01:05:09 Rick

OK. I'll even say we're evolved animals.

01:05:12 Rick

But we need to we, our soul needs to be talked to in certain ways.

01:05:18 Rick

For me the mythopoeic is there. For me, alchemy is the ultimate.

01:05:27 Rick

Metaphor for how how the soul operates.

01:05:31 Merrily

Right here.

01:05:33

Ah.

01:05:34 Rick

So.

01:05:35 Merrily

Oh, I like them.

01:05:36 Merrily

I like the term mythic poet poetic.

01:05:39 Merrily

Mythopoeic is such a cool term and it's I mentioned this literally on the last episode I recorded, but so I'm trying to look into my sort of the Filipino pre colonial you know.

01:05:54 Merrily

Were we doing?

01:05:55 Merrily

Pre pre Spain.

01:05:57 Merrily

And one of the books that I read recently is this one called way of the ancient healer by Virgil Mayor Apostol.

01:06:06 Merrily

Written.

01:06:07 Merrily

He's, you know, alive and well and very healthy.

01:06:11 Merrily

One of the things he said that like I can't stop thinking about was one of the when a healer a lot of times the healer in the Philippines before they would even start the healing on a person, they would tell them a story. They would tell them the.

01:06:26 Merrily

Of a.

01:06:28 Merrily

Mythic person or not even a mythic person, they just tell them a wonderful, beautiful story about how somebody went and sought this particular type of healing, and then they got healed so they would hear the story 1st and then the the healer would, you know, start doing.

01:06:44 Merrily

Their their thing on their healing method on it.

01:06:47 Merrily

And so the way it was explained was like it set the person up psychologically, mentally, emotionally, to receive the healing right.

01:06:56 Merrily

Like, hey, maybe I can actually heal.

01:06:58 Merrily

Because this character.

01:07:01 Merrily

Healed.

01:07:04 Merrily

And so I was like what?

01:07:05 Merrily

So.

01:07:06 Merrily

So when you were talking about that, it was like, yeah, like kids, especially kids, 'cause, they're so tied to that archetypal story, life, you know.

01:07:17 Merrily

Makes sense that that's the that's the prescription.

01:07:21 Rick

Yes.

01:07:23

Well.

01:07:27 Rick

I think of and I may butcher this story.

01:07:31 Rick

My apologies, but I I remember reading about Albert Schweitzer.

01:07:38 Rick

The great polymath, who worked in Africa.

01:07:42 Rick

As a doctor for a while and there would be, people would come to see him and some people, you'd see others he'd sent to send to the shaman.

01:07:52 Merrily

Hmm.

01:07:54 Rick

And some visitors were there and there of course.

01:07:57 Rick

Incenses like you are the ultimate.

01:07:59 Rick

Why aren't you seeing, you know, these people?

01:08:01 Rick

Are you sending them to the shaman?

01:08:04 Rick

And he said.

01:08:06 Rick

Because there are some things that can only be healed with medicine.

01:08:14 Rick

Most of these things can be healed through the mind, and that is the function of the shaman.

01:08:21 Merrily

Huh.

01:08:22 Rick

And.

01:08:25 Rick

I mean, I think a lot of our Western medicine.

01:08:30 Rick

Linux, if you will.

01:08:31 Rick

So.

01:08:32 Rick

Are starting to get this.

01:08:34 Merrily

Mm hmm.

01:08:35 Rick

Right. But a lot of them still aren't, right.

01:08:40 Rick

You come in with blood pressure, you're getting a medicine, yes.

01:08:45 Rick

And you know what?

01:08:46 Rick

The.

01:08:47 Rick

I I've got a malady.

01:08:49 Rick

I want it gone now.

01:08:51 Merrily

Right, right, exactly.

01:08:55 Merrily

That's how we're taught, though.

01:08:57 Rick

Oh, totally, totally.

01:08:58 Merrily

Gotta get taken care of, yeah.

01:09:00 Rick

Yes, yeah, yeah.

01:09:03 Merrily

Yeah. And it's also making me think of like when I was a child, I had because you were talking about.

01:09:08 Merrily

Sort.

01:09:09 Merrily

The children's clinic that you're talking about.

01:09:12 Merrily

So I had like horrible ulcers like stomach ulcers.

01:09:16 Merrily

And it was definitely based.

01:09:18 Merrily

It wasn't like the food I was eating or anything like it was definitely like the stuff that was going on, like in my family at the time was causing.

01:09:29 Merrily

Those ulcers I don't have them.

01:09:30 Merrily

Thank God they did finally clear up somehow.

01:09:31 Rick

Right.

01:09:33 Merrily

I bet now that we're talking about reading books. I loved reading books, so I'm wondering if that, you know, sort of helped heal the the ulcers on their own.

01:09:42 Merrily

It's definitely not going to the doctor.

01:09:44 Merrily

Or any of that stuff.

01:09:45 Merrily

It was not any of that excite. Yeah.

01:09:49 Merrily

That's fascinating.

01:09:51 Rick

I well, I haven't.

01:09:52 Rick

Thought about this for a long time, but.

01:09:55 Rick

I was 13 or 14.

01:09:57 Rick

Had stomach problems.

01:10:00 Rick

And I was taken to multiple doctors. And I remember the last doctor I went to said.

01:10:07 Rick

There's nothing wrong with you, kid.

01:10:09 Rick

Why are you wasting our time, right?

01:10:12 Merrily

Great.

01:10:13

Well.

01:10:15 Rick

Here I'm the oldest of seven kids.

01:10:19 Rick

My father.

01:10:21 Rick

God bless his soul. It's an alcoholic.

01:10:25 Rick

And when he would get drunk, the demons would rage.

01:10:29 Merrily

Right.

01:10:31 Rick

And.

01:10:33 Rick

You know that that really messed with my mind. Yeah, but at the time.

01:10:39 Rick

My parents were totally like this is a physical thing.

01:10:42 Rick

Just you know, you got to.

01:10:45 Rick

We got to go to the doctor.

01:10:46

Right.

01:10:46 Rick

Gonna ****.

01:10:48 Rick

And then of course, to go to the doctor.

01:10:49 Rick

They're just complete ********.

01:10:51 Rick

Right.

01:10:51 Merrily

Oh yeah, I know.

01:10:51 Rick

That's not helpful either, right?

01:10:55 Rick

But but you know.

01:10:57 Rick

I I didn't think about that till.

01:11:00 Rick

You know, years later.

01:11:02 Rick

Was like, oh, remember he had those stomach things like, yeah, I didn't have stomach things.

01:11:07 Rick

Had parents who were fudged up.

01:11:09

Yep.

01:11:11 Rick

And by the way, I you know, for everybody who's gonna want to defend parents.

01:11:18 Rick

I loved my.

01:11:20 Rick

They're both gone now. Loved them and.

01:11:25 Rick

I have no regrets, did they?

01:11:27 Rick

They screw some things up.

01:11:28 Rick

You better believe it.

01:11:32 Rick

But me being a parent, I have come to learn that I can also screw things up.

01:11:39 Rick

Just in different ways.

01:11:42 Rick

So. So I'd totally get that.

01:11:43 Rick

There's no my father and I made our piece.

01:11:48 Rick

Long ago and I value it.

01:11:51 Rick

I value him.

01:11:52 Rick

It was his journey, right?

01:11:54 Merrily

Yeah.

01:11:54 Rick

His journey.

01:11:57 Rick

And kids seen that parents have demons.

01:12:00 Rick

That is scary.

01:12:02 Rick

Oh yeah, super scary for kids.

01:12:05 Rick

So and then then you become an adult.

01:12:10 Rick

Well, I'm an.

01:12:12 Rick

I'm not gonna do that or I'm not gonna have my own demons. Guess what?

01:12:18 Rick

Surprise.

01:12:20 Rick

You got your own demons.

01:12:21 Rick

Got.

01:12:22 Merrily

Your own demons to wrestle with? Sure.

01:12:26 Rick

But I really believe you know, like I said.

01:12:30 Rick

Thinking differently, mythopoeically.

01:12:36 Rick

As unconditional love as you can have to give it to other people.

01:12:43 Rick

Well, you know, one of my former.

01:12:47 Rick

Actually, I didn't really have him for a professor he taught at Pacifica.

01:12:51 Rick

He taught at the young.

01:12:53 Rick

He was actually the director of of the.

01:12:55 Rick

Switzerland.

01:12:59 Rick

Funny.

01:12:59 Rick

I really idolized this guy.

01:13:02 Rick

And I had lunch with them twice at Pacifica when I was there. It was like my tongue was absolutely tied at even know what to say. You know, it was, it was ridiculous.

01:13:15 Rick

Anyway, he's now deceased.

01:13:18 Rick

Bad for the world, the.

01:13:20 Rick

A light has gone out, but he would often criticize psychotherapy for thinking.

01:13:20

Yeah.

01:13:28 Rick

They that psychotherapy had some kind of scientific model.

01:13:32

Hmm.

01:13:32 Rick

That fix.

01:13:35 Rick

People.

01:13:36 Merrily

Right.

01:13:37 Rick

And he's he's like hey.

01:13:40 Rick

How about just like you know?

01:13:43 Rick

Try some good old fashioned social gathering or whatever.

01:13:49 Rick

Things that are are are not lay on the couch. Tell me your problems.

01:13:53 Rick

Me. Your dreams. I'll interpret them.

01:13:56 Rick

Why?

01:13:57 Rick

I do love dreams, we.

01:13:58

Oh yeah.

01:13:58 Rick

Can talk about that, are you?

01:14:00 Rick

Other issue.

01:14:02 Merrily

Gosh.

01:14:04 Merrily

Yeah.

01:14:05 Merrily

That's fascinating. More like.

01:14:07 Merrily

It sounded like maybe you know you're you, as the psychotherapist, aren't the one.

01:14:12

I.

01:14:13 Merrily

Don't know like.

01:14:13 Merrily

The one that's gonna figure it out and.

01:14:16 Merrily

It's more like get the person into the community. Sounds like, right?

01:14:20 Merrily

Get them around people or like interacting with others.

01:14:26 Merrily

Maybe.

01:14:27 Rick

Yeah, to. To get them to be more human.

01:14:30 Merrily

To be more human, yes.

01:14:31 Rick

Right. And that would include?

01:14:35 Rick

Reading things, by the way, movies are are legit with me. If you don't want to read the book and they.

01:14:40 Rick

Made a movie.

01:14:41

It would, yeah.

01:14:41

Hey, I thought it.

01:14:47 Rick

Yeah, I was going to say something about Harry Potter, but I.

01:14:51 Rick

But I love the Harry Potter stuff, incidentally.

01:14:56 Rick

I have had just had great opportunities to study magic and alchemy and astrology from the earliest times till now, and I can tell you that JK Rowling is a virtual expert.

01:15:13 Rick

On who?

01:15:15 Rick

Actual real life magicians were an alchemist, and she weaves them throughout her books, and I didn't realize this because, you know, I just saw the movies and then my daughter would both voraciously eat these things up.

01:15:27 Merrily

Red.

01:15:31 Rick

So one day I just sat and I started going through Harry Potter book.

01:15:35 Rick

Like Nicholas for Mell. Wait a minute.

01:15:37 Rick

Was a real guy.

01:15:39 Rick

Wow, right and.

01:15:42 Rick

You know, you start seeing this stuff, not the least of which is the philosopher's stone.

01:15:49 Merrily

Right, yeah.

01:15:50 Rick

Which is completely based on alchemy, right?

01:15:54 Merrily

Yeah, yeah.

01:15:55 Rick

It is the source, so rolling what you know. I know there's been a lot of controversy around some of her statements.

01:16:03 Rick

Honestly haven't followed.

01:16:04 Rick

I don't know what they are.

01:16:07 Rick

With without knowing any of that, I could tell you she's at least an authority on magic and you know at alchemy she is.

01:16:15 Merrily

Yeah. Wow.

01:16:17 Merrily

But I didn't know that now.

01:16:20 Merrily

Amazing. See all the things I've learned so far.

01:16:24 Merrily

Oh gosh, I did want to talk about 'cause. I did.

01:16:29 Merrily

I like I mentioned to you, I got your alchemy deck, which I have.

01:16:33 Merrily

In here somewhere.

01:16:37 Merrily

But like, why did you decide to put them together and then?

01:16:46 Merrily

Would you want to share any sort of illuminations that you know came about from you using them yourself?

01:16:55 Merrily

I can, yeah.

01:16:56 Merrily

Anyway, I'll start there.

01:16:59 Merrily

Yeah.

01:17:00 Rick

Well, to start with, I am an image person, right?

01:17:06 Rick

Speak to me.

01:17:07 Merrily

Mm.

01:17:08 Rick

Although that's dreams, art, whatever.

01:17:12 Rick

That's me.

01:17:14 Rick

So when I was in the middle of my alchemy deep dive.

01:17:23 Rick

I came across some amazing alchemical texts that had these retorts. For those who may not.

01:17:31 Rick

What a retort is they they look like the the vases that The Alchemist have in their laboratory.

01:17:38 Rick

Basically, glass beakers, bottles, retorts, Olympics and.

01:17:45 Rick

In in each of these bottles, if you will.

01:17:50 Rick

There's.

01:17:51 Rick

Different stages of what's known as the alchemical process.

01:17:56 Merrily

Mm.

01:17:58 Rick

So from the.

01:18:03 Rick

From a transmutation point of view, if you're going to take.

01:18:10 Rick

Some metal and turn it into gold.

01:18:14 Rick

Right. You would have a particular.

01:18:16 Rick

You put it in, so you might start with just breaking down the base metal.

01:18:25 Rick

Right. And that, you know, it's got a lot of words that go with it. I can't even think of one right now.

01:18:31 Rick

Bragatio.

01:18:33 Rick

Would be 1, but it's known as the blackening.

01:18:38 Rick

And the reason is that.

01:18:42 Rick

Chemical substance is going to be broken down into its finer parts.

01:18:49 Rick

And then that's not enough. Once you've had little filtration.

01:18:54 Rick

It's gonna be broken down even more.

01:18:58 Rick

And then through a a series of processes, you end up with silver or gold.

01:19:04 Rick

Just reverse that with or not reverse it, but just plug that in for spiritual transformation and you can see how easy it is to take a look at our lives and see a period of blackening.

01:19:20 Rick

Anybody ever have one of those?

01:19:22 Rick

Well, I don't know.

01:19:24 Rick

Despair, hatred. Self loathing, whatever.

01:19:29 Rick

That's, that's the period.

01:19:31 Rick

John's Dark Knight of the soul.

01:19:35 Rick

And then as you move through that process, the colors change in the alchemical substance, as do all our emotions, as do our primal.

01:19:48 Rick

Brains.

01:19:49 Merrily

Right.

01:19:50 Rick

Our primal brains can take a look at the alchemical process and say.

01:19:58 Rick

Rick, I don't really know what the hell you're talking about here, but but I know what it is to feel really bad.

01:20:07 Rick

I know what it is to feel.

01:20:11 Rick

You know blue or or as as I'm working through my process I have other feelings and feelings like, well, maybe it's not so bad. And just to to keep moving or or maybe you find out there's something in your life.

01:20:27 Rick

If you don't like, maybe you're an abusive husband.

01:20:31 Rick

Maybe you're an abusive wife.

01:20:33 Rick

Husbands are usually more common.

01:20:36 Rick

And you want to change that.

01:20:38 Rick

That's going to be unbelievably freaking difficult.

01:20:43 Rick

Or maybe it's just your, you know, your young teenager and you want to.

01:20:50 Rick

You want to fall in love with the boy or girl and you're just, you know, too afraid. And at all you've got to do something to change and and and going through a process can help you do that.

01:21:05 Rick

All right, so after that long boring setup.

01:21:10 Rick

I came across several manuscripts that had these unbelievable images.

01:21:17 Rick

You know, you've seen them on the cards?

01:21:20 Rick

And I said I must have these and I'm not sure how to have them.

01:21:28 Rick

Right. So what I first did was I.

01:21:32 Rick

Took them through Photoshop, clean em up and I made images you could hang on your wall.

01:21:39 Rick

So I do have.

01:21:43 Rick

A great simple.

01:21:47 Rick

Wall hanging that I've produced that's got 12 retorts and I have.

01:21:53 Rick

Uh.

01:21:54 Rick

A cut out.

01:21:55 Rick

Can't think of what you call it.

01:21:57 Rick

Now, but it's got 12 slots. You can put your pictures in.

01:22:00 Rick

So they're tiny, right?

01:22:02 Rick

There's like 3 by twos, but it's 12 retorts and just looking at it, you could see, hey, there's something going on here just based on the colors.

01:22:11

And.

01:22:11 Rick

The sheets the images.

01:22:13 Rick

So that spoke to me. And then.

01:22:16 Rick

I just start.

01:22:18 Rick

Could I put these in some kind of card deck?

01:22:22 Rick

And sure enough, I figured out I could.

01:22:26 Rick

And then once I had the card deck, so I pull. I'm gonna just use this for my own.

01:22:34 Rick

Just to look at these, right?

01:22:36 Rick

Feel them.

01:22:38 Rick

Right. If you're, if you're feeling dark, feeling blue, go to one of the dark cards.

01:22:44 Rick

What do you see inside of it and kind of use what you would call the act of imagination?

01:22:52 Rick

By the way, there's a a book before we.

01:22:55 Rick

Well, I have it written down over here. Marie Louise von Franz, 1 of Freud's.

01:23:02 Rick

Freud's main researcher.

01:23:05 Rick

And she was probably at the forefront of most of the things he talked about, really.

01:23:10 Rick

Lee.

01:23:11 Rick

For what I could.

01:23:14 Rick

But she she has a book on the alchemical imagination.

01:23:18 Rick

And it's a brilliant book on alchemy.

01:23:21 Rick

It's it's everything that.

01:23:23 Rick

You know that we're talking about as far as alchemical symbolic personal transformation and relationship.

01:23:31

OK.

01:23:33 Rick

So anyway I I did these cards for myself and then I'm like, I'll bet I could sell these things.

01:23:41 Rick

Right. And so.

01:23:43 Rick

William Kiesel had esoteric book.

01:23:47 Rick

I don't know if you're familiar with, but it started back in.

01:23:52 Rick

Mid 2000s.

01:23:55 Rick

And.

01:23:57 Rick

And I went to it and I just, you know, I love fell in love with it, fell in love with Bill.

01:24:05 Rick

And anyway.

01:24:10 Rick

I said for next year I'm going to be selling my alchemy prints.

01:24:15 Rick

What I'm going to do.

01:24:17 Rick

And so, so I did it.

01:24:20 Rick

So I'm giving these decks out to people.

01:24:23 Rick

Instructions just. Here they are.

01:24:27 Rick

Have fun right now. You know, having gone to school with the cadre of 45 other union nut jobs.

01:24:37 Rick

We could just sit there with an image, right?

01:24:40 Rick

For an hour and.

01:24:41 Rick

Everybody could talk for an hour about the same image.

01:24:46 Rick

And it's just the way we're wired.

01:24:49 Rick

Some people aren't wired that.

01:24:50 Rick

I've had people look at it and say I just why?

01:24:53 Rick

Why would you waste your time on this now? All I could say is I I don't know.

01:25:00 Rick

Have to blame my parents.

01:25:02 Rick

And those nuns so.

01:25:02

Replay.

01:25:05 Rick

Anyway, it was a great development because.

01:25:07 Rick

I started.

01:25:09 Rick

Selling these things online and sold them to folks in the next year at at the Aesthetic book Conference, I had people coming back that had those and they said.

01:25:23 Rick

Rick, this is the best set of tarot cards I have ever used.

01:25:29 Rick

I'm like.

01:25:32 Merrily

Tarot. Yeah. Wow.

01:25:34 Rick

Well, of course she did.

01:25:36 Rick

Of course.

01:25:36

Yeah.

01:25:36 Rick

My design all along.

01:25:38 Merrily

Yeah.

01:25:39 Rick

And other people started using them with the what's thing?

01:25:46 Rick

The pendulum.

01:25:47 Merrily

Oh, the pendulum, yeah.

01:25:49 Rick

Using the layout, the cards and they'd use the pendulum and and come up with what?

01:25:54 Rick

You know what they would would go down the line with.

01:25:59 Rick

So I mean, people are involved with tarot.

01:26:03 Rick

No tarot cards clearly understand the power of the image.

01:26:07 Merrily

Right.

01:26:08 Rick

And a good tarot card reader is a good storyteller.

01:26:11

Mm.

01:26:11 Rick

Great imagination. Intuition.

01:26:15 Rick

And so these cards just kind of fell into that.

01:26:18 Rick

I'd like to say I developed them with this scheme in mind.

01:26:24 Rick

With a big accident.

01:26:25 Rick

I'm OK with that.

01:26:27 Merrily

Yeah.

01:26:28 Rick

And and I love it when I get.

01:26:32 Rick

You know, notes from people telling me how meaningful they were.

01:26:37 Rick

And I think I may have mentioned to you.

01:26:40 Rick

Sold. Sold some of these cards around the world.

01:26:44 Rick

Right by practicing alchemists.

01:26:47 Rick

Mm.

01:26:49 Rick

And they would start to send me communications.

01:26:53 Rick

Hey I've got this at this development in the stage of my retort and I'm getting this color.

01:27:00 Rick

Do you think's going on here and?

01:27:04 Rick

And I just had to say.

01:27:07 Rick

I have no idea.

01:27:12 Rick

I'm sorry, I just, you know, just a flim flam man. Here's your guards.

01:27:18 Rick

But it was really, really great to find out there's this community of people around the world.

01:27:26 Rick

Interested in, you know, pottero and.

01:27:29 Rick

Alchemy and and these other sorts of ways of exploring meaning in life.

01:27:34

Yeah.

01:27:36 Rick

Anyway, that's how that started.

01:27:39 Rick

I don't know that I have had any experiences personally with my cards that were like, wow to me. The whole thing was a wow.

01:27:50 Merrily

Right.

01:27:51 Rick

And then when other people can experience what I something I've produced.

01:27:59 Rick

I I feel like that's one of my kids, you know, and I don't take, like any ownership. Like, I'm responsible for that.

01:28:02 Merrily

Mm.

01:28:07 Rick

I'm more like I'm really proud that I put this in the world and somebody else.

01:28:14 Rick

Was able to have meaning from it.

01:28:17

Ah.

01:28:19 Merrily

That's all you can hope for. Really. Yes, that feels great.

01:28:24 Rick

You know, we may be just apes.

01:28:28 Rick

Sophisticated apes. But the fact is.

01:28:33 Rick

We're we're really like brilliant because we are unpredictable.

01:28:38

We're.

01:28:39 Rick

I mean on the one hand, we're totally predictable. On the other hand.

01:28:39 Merrily

Hmm.

01:28:41 Merrily

Right.

01:28:43 Rick

We're not.

01:28:45

Yeah.

01:28:47 Rick

And and and to go along with life and archetypes, I mean, really everybody wants to be redeemed.

01:28:53 Rick

Everybody wants to be transformed in some way out their life, and those are the things that are really important.

01:29:03 Rick

And that's where alchemy jumps in.

01:29:06 Rick

And that's where you could take somebody who's a murderer.

01:29:10 Rick

Who really has a transformation in their mind? We're not going to talk about, should that murder be punished? Whatever. That's that's not where I'm going here.

01:29:21 Rick

It's just simply.

01:29:23 Rick

Anybody can be redeemed.

01:29:26 Rick

Anybody can be transformed and that is an internal process and that is something nobody can deny you.

01:29:37 Rick

You never somebody. They may take your life.

01:29:40 Rick

Or doing that but.

01:29:43 Rick

They can't as long as you're alive. They can't take away your mind.

01:29:47 Rick

Can't take away what you're able to pull? Pull out of this.

01:29:55 Merrily

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely something very deep to think about as far as.

01:30:02 Merrily

Transformation and how it's available to everybody.

01:30:06 Merrily

It's really interesting to think about.

01:30:09 Merrily

Yeah, I was.

01:30:10 Merrily

I keep pulling like I have your deck out here. The camera.

01:30:14 Merrily

Got all the the cards. I got all the.

01:30:17 Merrily

I keep.

01:30:18 Merrily

I'm not going to ask you to, like, interpret.

01:30:19 Merrily

I wouldn't do that, but I'm just going to show the the folks.

01:30:24 Merrily

It's this.

01:30:25 Merrily

I pull it like, you know all the time. And it's what is it?

01:30:30 Merrily

Sashio thick sashio principato.

01:30:34 Merrily

It's my terrible pronunciation.

01:30:38 Merrily

Yeah, I like thinking when I look at the cards, I like, you know, 'cause, I don't know what these mean.

01:30:42 Merrily

Like, I don't really know what these.

01:30:45 Merrily

But I just kind of take into account.

01:30:47 Merrily

Oh, sometimes the lid on the it's covered. Sometimes it's open, sometimes you know what's the process going on?

01:30:54 Merrily

A lot of fire in here.

01:30:56 Merrily

Know what does that mean?

01:30:57 Rick

What do you think?

01:30:59 Merrily

I don't know.

01:31:00 Rick

Speak to you. How does this?

01:31:01 Merrily

When I.

01:31:03 Merrily

So when I look at it, I just I kind of laugh because it looks like the world is on fire because there's a little globe in here.

01:31:11 Merrily

And to me, if there's a lid on top to me, that's like there's an internal process that's going on.

01:31:17 Merrily

And fire is a couple things fire, like burns away everything. And so it's purification. But it's also like after the fire, what's left, you know.

01:31:32 Merrily

So. So that's something an internal process that I'm.

01:31:37 Merrily

You know, working out, does that mean for me?

01:31:42 Merrily

So yeah, so it's really cool to like, you know, really figure out and meditate on what that means for me in my particular life or situation. So it's really cool.

01:31:52 Rick

Right. Yeah, great. Yeah.

01:31:54

No.

01:31:56 Rick

So fixatio principato.

01:31:59

Yes.

01:32:01 Rick

Principatio.

01:32:03 Rick

Yeah.

01:32:05 Merrily

Except to.

01:32:08 Merrily

Yeah, I know it's.

01:32:08 Rick

Yeah.

01:32:09 Rick

So that would be the the first fixation or the 1st fixing. I mean if you think of it in terms like developing black and white film, you had fixed itives and things like that.

01:32:22 Merrily

Right.

01:32:23 Rick

It's.

01:32:26 Rick

It's both a chemical term.

01:32:31 Rick

But most of the retorts I have in that card are from a Rosicrucian text.

01:32:38 Rick

Called.

01:32:42 Rick

I want to say it's.

01:32:45 Rick

The seven seals.

01:32:48 Rick

I I can look that up to to tell you for sure.

01:32:50 Rick

I know the seven seals are in it.

01:32:52 Rick

But.

01:32:56 Rick

It is purely a spiritual, symbolic set of retorts.

01:33:03 Rick

Hmm.

01:33:03 Rick

So it's really not to be taken as literal chemical.

01:33:10 Rick

But if you know kind of the processes that are part of the chemical equation, then you can.

01:33:20 Rick

Have just has a little more meaning for you.

01:33:22

Well.

01:33:23 Rick

I think.

01:33:23 Rick

You described to me is brilliant. I mean.

01:33:27 Rick

You're just using your imagination and fire burns.

01:33:31 Rick

Stuff away that.

01:33:34 Rick

Very good.

01:33:35 Rick

California may not appreciate it, right, Jeff?

01:33:38 Merrily

Yeah, exactly.

01:33:42 Rick

But yeah, that's.

01:33:45 Rick

It's it's good to hear how you have looked at that for me because I, you know, I might relate or or I might see something new from that. And as I've you know, told my kids.

01:33:48 Merrily

Mm.

01:33:56 Merrily

Yeah.

01:34:02 Rick

Kids, you know, I don't remember what you're talking about.

01:34:07 Rick

Happening if I don't remember it, it didn't exist.

01:34:10 Rick

Sometimes I don't remember, but I can tell you that.

01:34:15 Rick

I have learned many things.

01:34:18 Rick

And it'll come back to me and I'll learn it again and I'll think, oh, that's not new.

01:34:26 Rick

But it's it's like a remembrance.

01:34:29 Rick

A revisitation of it.

01:34:32 Rick

Which is a good.

01:34:33 Rick

I mean, remembrance is always a good thing.

01:34:36 Merrily

Yeah.

01:34:38 Rick

So I was going to mention something about.

01:34:42 Rick

Since I brought brought up, that's a.

01:34:44 Rick

Text, right?

01:34:47 Rick

So there's a lot of, incidentally, I just wanna put put out there.

01:34:53 Rick

I am not an authority on alchemy.

01:34:57 Rick

Now let me also say that.

01:35:00 Rick

Of all the people I've come in contact with.

01:35:06 Rick

I am an authority over them.

01:35:09 Rick

Let me put it that way.

01:35:12 Rick

But it's it's not because I'm an authority. It's just I've. I've read a lot and I've seen a lot, so I know.

01:35:16 Merrily

Right.

01:35:17 Rick

So when I hear somebody come up with.

01:35:21 Rick

With comments like well, there are 7 steps to alchemy.

01:35:24 Rick

12 steps to.

01:35:25 Rick

It's like uh, I don't think so.

01:35:28 Merrily

Mm.

01:35:29 Rick

I don't think.

01:35:30 Rick

I I think you need to, you know, retake kind of retake a look at this because there are multiple steps and I mean 12 steps.

01:35:42 Rick

Nothing to do with alcoholism as far.

01:35:43 Rick

I know.

01:35:44

Nope.

01:35:45 Rick

None.

01:35:47 Rick

But that was a common number that was used for different alchemists, right?

01:35:52 Rick

Everything in alchemy is symbolic.

01:35:55 Rick

Everything in is symbolic, so the number the numbers that are used are symbolic.

01:36:03 Rick

And whenever you try to say this is what alchemy is or was, I just have to say stop.

01:36:12 Rick

Let's talk a little bit more about this, you know.

01:36:16 Rick

Because the fact is, from whatever you want to say, alchemy came from the beginning of time, started with the Egyptians with the Greeks where wherever you want to place it, it's been different and everything.

01:36:30 Rick

But there are principles that have stayed the same.

01:36:34 Rick

A lot of commonalities, and by the time of well, you know the 16th, 17th century.

01:36:43 Rick

Mostly Christian.

01:36:45 Rick

Hermeticists got ahold of it.

01:36:48 Rick

Apologists, both Catholic and Protestant.

01:36:52 Rick

And alchemy became a very Christian, if you will practice.

01:37:00 Rick

It doesn't mean there weren't Arabic alchemists 'cause there were long before Christians.

01:37:04 Rick

They were Arabic alchemists as a matter of fact, some of the most brilliant scientists that the world has known came came out of the Arab world.

01:37:15 Rick

They had a steam engine 2000 years ago.

01:37:18 Rick

Right. I mean.

01:37:20 Rick

The medicine that they got or they they recorded.

01:37:26 Rick

Primarily was just recaptured and given, as you know. Oh, Paracelsus came up with this.

01:37:35 Rick

Maybe not, maybe not.

01:37:37 Merrily

Yeah.

01:37:38 Rick

But that's a long way of saying the.

01:37:41 Rick

You'll hear a lot of talk about Rosicrucians. There are modern Rosicrucian Freemasonry, sex.

01:37:48 Rick

There's some Rosicrucian alchemical sex.

01:37:53 Rick

One in France that I know of simply because they've asked me for alchemical advice, and I had to tell them you're asking the wrong guy, but nice to know you and you know anyway.

01:38:07 Rick

Umm.

01:38:08 Rick

And as we look through through history, the.

01:38:14 Rick

It was in the 16th century when we first hear the term Rosicrucian.

01:38:19

As.

01:38:19 Rick

Far as I could tell from my studies.

01:38:25 Rick

Or Adam Mclean's website.

01:38:29 Rick

We'll talk about him in a second.

01:38:33 Rick

Tell me that the Rosicrucians were more of a movement than they were.

01:38:40 Rick

One or two people.

01:38:43 Rick

Are people that we could point to?

01:38:45 Rick

Could say those were Rosicrucians.

01:38:51 Rick

And and a lot of them were Freemasons as well.

01:38:55 Rick

But the movement basically came out of the 16th century and it was a movement that.

01:39:07 Rick

Symbolized alchemy, right? And it it became.

01:39:13 Rick

More than just a spiritual formation, it also became a humanistic or humanist formulation.

01:39:24 Rick

And really tied into what was happening with the Royal Society in the early 17th century with Frances Bacon, who was just a a brilliant.

01:39:35 Rick

So Pauline.

01:39:37 Rick

And was adored by the Royal Society.

01:39:42 Rick

Could talk about him for days.

01:39:47 Rick

When we talk about Rosicrucians like said, I'm more comfortable talking about it as a movement that developed and had unbelievable influence.

01:40:00 Rick

In both the Royal Society and the founding of Freemasonry.

01:40:05 Rick

Which of course.

01:40:07 Rick

Free Masons were part of the royal.

01:40:09 Rick

I mean, it's like it's this, this web that's all all tangled up together.

01:40:16 Rick

But brilliantly.

01:40:19 Rick

And I, you know, I'm a Freemason, don't hate me.

01:40:24 Rick

You don't rule the world.

01:40:26 Rick

We can't even agree on what pizza to order, right? I guarantee you that.

01:40:32 Rick

Yeah, but I know early on.

01:40:35 Rick

I know about alchemy. Before I knew anything really about Freemasonry. And you know, I was telling some of the brothers, hey.

01:40:43 Rick

This you've got alchemical imagery in in the rights here and things they're like now we don't.

01:40:52 Rick

Yeah. Actually I think you do.

01:40:55 Rick

In in the Scottish Rite, for those you know who wanna go out and and take a look.

01:41:01 Rick

As you read through the 32.

01:41:03 Rick

Degrees. There's actually multiple allusions to.

01:41:08 Rick

The alchemical process.

01:41:11 Rick

Right. So again, they're using it very strongly as this is going to make better people.

01:41:18 Rick

And that was really what, for me, one of the shining lights coming out of the Renaissance periods that I.

01:41:28 Rick

People wanted to be better.

01:41:30 Rick

They didn't want to have to kill each other just because you believed in a different way about God.

01:41:39 Rick

Or the Pope or or whatever, right?

01:41:43 Rick

They just were tired, absolutely.

01:41:45 Rick

But that's that was part of the whole Royal Society's getting together. It's like.

01:41:51 Rick

You guys go off and fight in the corner there, right? We wanna work on.

01:41:58 Rick

Scientific development and you know how to make people better, how to make society better.

01:42:05 Rick

All right.

01:42:08 Rick

Sermon only 37600.

01:42:13 Merrily

Oh yeah, I like thinking about that too, about the Enlightenment in that sense. 'cause. I think most people think, oh, the Enlightenment was about.

01:42:22 Merrily

Art and, you know, writing and yes. Yeah, for sure.

01:42:24 Merrily

But at the core of it, I like thinking about like, no, we actually wanna be better people and have better societies.

01:42:33 Merrily

So we need, we need a little more of that, I think.

01:42:37 Rick

Absolutely, absolutely.

01:42:40 Rick

Yeah. If you look at at history like look at the Renaissance period, you know the demetichis who were absolute ruthless, right.

01:42:51 Rick

You think we have ruinous people today? Yeah.

01:42:55 Rick

It's child's play.

01:42:57 Merrily

Right.

01:42:58 Rick

You slit your throat and toss you in the drink, then go off and have a nice lunch.

01:43:05 Rick

But but they financed a lot of of the wonderful works of art that we got through.

01:43:11 Rick

Know the my client well, maybe.

01:43:12 Rick

Michelangelo didn't seem to get a lot of money, but.

01:43:17 Rick

All of all of those people.

01:43:21

OK.

01:43:21 Rick

Greatly benefited from that and of course, as humans we were able to look back in the art and.

01:43:27 Rick

Like wow.

01:43:30 Rick

Really fantastic.

01:43:32 Rick

And of course we, you know, we saw that with the Rockefellers that came through.

01:43:37 Rick

They literally killed people, old people.

01:43:39

Right.

01:43:41

Replay.

01:43:42 Rick

To to get things done.

01:43:44 Rick

Right, formed a nice little you know.

01:43:49 Rick

Beneficial philosophical society and set up museums and everything.

01:43:54 Rick

It's it's, it's it's mixed.

01:43:57 Merrily

Right.

01:43:58 Rick

And I you know, I I hate to keep drawing the analogy between black and white.

01:44:05 Rick

We just can't think in terms of very many things in terms of black and white.

01:44:11

Great.

01:44:12 Rick

Because it's just such a mixed crazy world.

01:44:16 Merrily

Mm.

01:44:17 Rick

Where you're going to point the finger at.

01:44:21 Rick

It's going back at you.

01:44:22 Merrily

Yeah, exactly.

01:44:23 Rick

Or or, you know it's going to be touching one of your.

01:44:29 Rick

Golden idols.

01:44:30 Rick

Sacred cows.

01:44:32 Rick

Mm.

01:44:33 Merrily

Yeah, that's so hard for even on an individual basis.

01:44:39 Merrily

But that's that's the work.

01:44:40 Merrily

What we gotta do?

01:44:43 Rick

True, true.

01:44:45 Merrily

And I think he.

01:44:46 Merrily

Did you want to mention Adam?

01:44:47 Merrily

I can't remember the last name.

01:44:50 Merrily

Alchemical website.

01:44:53 Merrily

Adam McLean.

01:44:54 Merrily

Yes.

01:44:56 Rick

And I think his website maybe I have it written.

01:45:02 Rick

I think it's called Alchemy website.

01:45:05

Perfect.

01:45:06 Rick

This is what it's called and I do have it written down.

01:45:10 Rick

Damned if I can find it right now.

01:45:12

****.

01:45:13 Rick

Yeah. So Adam is the man. He is the master.

01:45:18 Rick

And he will also tell you he's not.

01:45:22 Merrily

Right.

01:45:22 Merrily

A.

01:45:23 Rick

But yeah, he was pulling information out back in the 60s and 70s when the Internet didn't exist when in order to get these alchemical texts, you had to go to.

01:45:32

Uh.

01:45:37 Rick

You know, one of the university libraries and, you know, put on some gloves and talk, talk to people to get copies and things like that.

01:45:47 Rick

Absolute pioneer in modern Western esoteric literature.

01:45:56

Mm.

01:45:56 Rick

Oh, and just a really I think he's.

01:46:00 Rick

Great guy.

01:46:01 Rick

I mean, he's.

01:46:01 Rick

Cranky old Scott is what he is.

01:46:05 Rick

But you know, as I get older, these cranky guys to see more lovable to me. I don't know if.

01:46:09 Rick

That is.

01:46:11 Rick

But but he's done a a tremendous service for us and if you have any alchemy.

01:46:19 Rick

Ideas. He's he or need research. He's at least got.

01:46:25 Rick

About it.

01:46:26 Rick

I guarantee, yeah.

01:46:29 Rick

It's.

01:46:30 Rick

His website is.

01:46:32 Rick

I don't know how many terabytes of information it's huge.

01:46:37 Rick

Wow. But he's talked.

01:46:38 Rick

You know, when I go I.

01:46:39 Rick

I don't know what's going to happen with.

01:46:42 Rick

Thing I'm like, well, I hope somebody does something with it.

01:46:45 Merrily

Yeah. Oh.

01:46:46 Merrily

We gotta figure that out, everybody.

01:46:49 Rick

Yeah, absolute treasure.

01:46:51 Merrily

That's so awesome that.

01:46:55 Rick

In the northwest here I think I mentioned Robert Bartlett lives up in Marysville, is a.

01:47:08 Rick

Little I can talk, right?

01:47:11 Rick

And that is a branch of alchemy that primarily.

01:47:17 Rick

Is medicinal in nature.

01:47:20 Rick

So finding lots of lots of things.

01:47:25 Rick

I I have other folks I know that are involved in that as well, but it's a very specific branch of alchemy.

01:47:32 Rick

But.

01:47:33 Rick

It's Roberts, a very humble guy.

01:47:38 Rick

I think he's very super smart and he knows what's going on.

01:47:41

Hmm.

01:47:43 Rick

I think he's also.

01:47:46 Rick

A works as a chemist.

01:47:48

Wow.

01:47:48 Rick

So he he provides advice for, you know, firms like Boeing.

01:47:55 Rick

What kind of materials can be used?

01:47:58 Rick

Super Smart, super humble.

01:48:00 Rick

He has classes all the time.

01:48:04 Rick

And if anybody's interested in doing that, I'd say.

01:48:07 Rick

Look him up.

01:48:09 Merrily

Yeah.

01:48:10 Rick

Worth your time? Absolutely.

01:48:12 Merrily

Yeah, I'm always fascinated with the jurisdictions like.

01:48:15 Merrily

I I have a lot of respect for it, but I'm like, I don't know if I could do it.

01:48:20 Merrily

I think it's awesome.

01:48:21 Rick

You could.

01:48:23

By the way.

01:48:25 Rick

Several by our printer and Robert's laboratory.

01:48:27 Merrily

Really. That's so cool.

01:48:30 Rick

And he also has a deck of my.

01:48:33 Rick

Of course he does.

01:48:34 Rick

And you know what's funny is when.

01:48:37 Rick

When he.

01:48:38 Rick

Them I had no idea who he was, right?

01:48:42 Rick

And again, he's just very.

01:48:44 Rick

Came up, you know? So he he bought this deck and I'm like, oh, cool, another sales, right.

01:48:50 Merrily

Great.

01:48:50 Rick

So he went off and, you know, one of my friends came over and said, do you know who that is?

01:48:54 Rick

I'm like no.

01:48:57 Rick

So then they told me and it's like.

01:48:58 Rick

Oh.

01:49:00 Rick

Gosh, should I say anything stupid?

01:49:02 Rick

Are you more stupid than normal?

01:49:07 Rick

I don't think that.

01:49:07 Merrily

That's so cool.

01:49:10 Rick

There was a.

01:49:13 Rick

Boyd time is flying by so fast, but I want to save somewhere between 2008 and 2013 there was actually an alchemist.

01:49:25 Rick

Conference or convention or whatever.

01:49:29 Rick

Secret place up in.

01:49:29

Wow.

01:49:34 Rick

Redmond.

01:49:39 Rick

Yeah, I think it's the Venusian church.

01:49:43 Rick

If you've heard about it.

01:49:44 Rick

Anyway it's.

01:49:46 Rick

It's a hideaway place. When you, when you drive up to get to go down the hill to it, it's got all sorts of signs that say if you're not welcome here, you will be prosecuted today until the fullest extent of the law.

01:50:03 Rick

But you get down to the bottom bottom of it and you see what they have around.

01:50:07 Rick

They built a full stone circle.

01:50:11 Rick

They've got.

01:50:13 Rick

A living room, if you will.

01:50:17 Rick

For people to go through transformations they have.

01:50:22 Rick

Yeah, little Greek temple set up.

01:50:26 Rick

It's it's a really wild place.

01:50:28

Well.

01:50:29 Rick

It's absolutely great to spend this weekend with all these.

01:50:33 Rick

Different folks related to alchemy and.

01:50:38 Rick

I don't know.

01:50:39 Rick

It's just so fun to be part of something like that.

01:50:42 Merrily

Yeah.

01:50:42

And.

01:50:43 Rick

I wasn't there as alchemical authority. I was there simply as I got some ways to sell, and I like EM.

01:50:50 Rick

You know.

01:50:54 Rick

Amazing.

01:50:55 Rick

There's a lot of stuff here in the northwest that is a hidden treasures and unfortunately I think COVID has helped kind of dampen that down.

01:51:05

We need to get.

01:51:06 Merrily

Mm.

01:51:06 Rick

We need to get.

01:51:07 Rick

We need to resurrect this stuff, right?

01:51:10 Merrily

Yeah, I think so.

01:51:10 Rick

Need to get more people?

01:51:13 Rick

Getting excited about alchemy.

01:51:14 Merrily

Yes, everybody.

01:51:16 Merrily

That's good.

01:51:19 Rick

Or whatever.

01:51:20 Merrily

Yes, because all that stuff is like sounds awesome.

01:51:23 Merrily

These are my favorite places to visit and go to, so that's yeah, we need more of that open, especially around where I live, where we live.

01:51:31 Rick

Yes.

01:51:32 Merrily

Be amazing.

01:51:34 Merrily

Oh wow.

01:51:35 Merrily

Wow, we've got. We've gone through so many things.

01:51:38 Merrily

I think the very last thing, and I know this could be like a whole discussion in of itself, but I do wanna mention 'cause. You talked about dreams.

01:51:49 Merrily

And.

01:51:51 Merrily

So my own.

01:51:52 Merrily

Thinking on dreams 'cause I I was really resistant to recording my dreams, like writing them down right?

01:51:58 Merrily

Yeah, cause a lot of times they're they just seem sort of dumb.

01:52:01 Merrily

Like, oh, in the dream, I went to the grocery store and I met this, you know, or whatever.

01:52:05 Rick

Yes.

01:52:06 Merrily

But I do now understand cause I've been doing it now for four or five years. When I do recall them, I do write them down and the the thing that I have found doing that is there is a language inside of me.

01:52:19 Merrily

That is starting to appear, and it's the language of symbols.

01:52:22 Merrily

Sure, you're very aware.

01:52:25 Merrily

And those.

01:52:26 Merrily

Symbols are very internal, like they mean something to.

01:52:30 Merrily

I don't like. I think a lot of times when people explain dreams to other people. That's why other people are like what?

01:52:36 Merrily

Is because the internal symbols mean a lot to you.

01:52:40 Merrily

But when you start writing them down, then it's like, oh, I dream a lot about being in other people's houses. And what does that mean? Like.

01:52:48 Merrily

You know, I meet the same these type of individuals all the time.

01:52:50 Merrily

Is.

01:52:51 Merrily

You know, So what can you tell us about dreams? I wanted to share.

01:52:58 Rick

Wow, there's. There's a lot.

01:53:00 Merrily

Yeah.

01:53:01 Rick

Let me just try to cut through all the morass here.

01:53:07 Rick

Marie Louise von Franz I mentioned on has written a couple books on dreams.

01:53:10 Merrily

Mm.

01:53:16 Rick

You need to get him.

01:53:19 Rick

She's also written.

01:53:22 Rick

At least one book on fairy tales, if not more dreams fairy tales.

01:53:29 Rick

The symbolic world it's all the same.

01:53:34 Rick

It's all the same.

01:53:36 Rick

Really great.

01:53:38 Rick

There's a Robert Bosniak has a book called a Little Course on dreams. And here's the best part for those who don't like to read a lot of books.

01:53:49 Rick

It's only like 30 or 40 pages long.

01:53:53 Merrily

Wow.

01:53:54 Rick

And in it, he talks about the alchemical process and he.

01:54:00 Rick

Uses the colors associated with alchemy black, the white, the yellow, the Reds.

01:54:10 Rick

A great little book, easy read.

01:54:15 Rick

But Marie Louise von Franz is the woman.

01:54:21 Rick

She was the master.

01:54:24 Rick

And I've there's a Marie von Franz Institute in Switzerland also.

01:54:30 Merrily

Oh wow.

01:54:32 Rick

And.

01:54:34 Rick

The guy that was my thesis advisor.

01:54:38 Rick

At Civica.

01:54:40 Rick

Graduated from her school.

01:54:43 Rick

And he chose it over the Union Institute.

01:54:47 Rick

He's he believes that.

01:54:51 Rick

Or they believe that she had the true union calling as opposed to the institute. I don't know.

01:54:59 Rick

Don't begin to understand such things. I do know that.

01:55:04 Rick

Jung was known to have said.

01:55:08 Rick

As he was getting older and, you know, had all these unions popping up, he said.

01:55:14 Rick

God, I'm young and not a.

01:55:16 Rick

You know, I don't think I can keep up with these people.

01:55:19 Merrily

It.

01:55:19 Rick

It's, you know, you'll find that when you talk about archetypes especially.

01:55:27 Rick

Young never really fully developed exactly what he meant.

01:55:32 Rick

So all these people with I've got the inside scoop, the inside source.

01:55:38 Rick

Me, I'm.

01:55:38 Rick

It's like I just kind of get it all right.

01:55:41 Rick

There's there's values that are common to everybody.

01:55:45 Rick

Call them something else, right?

01:55:45

Thanks.

01:55:48 Rick

Call them the the values of the sophisticated primates, whatever.

01:55:55 Rick

Umm.

01:55:56 Rick

So I I started to see a therapist. I don't know.

01:56:05 Rick

It could have been 2530 years ago.

01:56:08 Rick

In any case, the first day I saw the therapist was union oriented.

01:56:14 Rick

I didn't know that at the time, I said.

01:56:15 Rick

Hmm.

01:56:19 Rick

She.

01:56:19 Rick

You ever dreamed?

01:56:20 Rick

I'm like, that's an odd question.

01:56:23 Rick

Kind of personal, really, lady.

01:56:25 Merrily

Yeah.

01:56:26 Rick

So I said, well, yeah I do.

01:56:29 Rick

Like, do you have any recurring dreams? I'm like.

01:56:32 Rick

Wow, she's psychic.

01:56:34 Rick

This woman is psychic, yeah.

01:56:38 Rick

And I told her a recurring dream that I had.

01:56:42 Rick

And she unfolded it for me, like in a matter of minutes.

01:56:47 Rick

Blew my mind.

01:56:49

Wow.

01:56:50 Rick

Blew my mind.

01:56:53 Rick

And.

01:56:56 Rick

She's she doesn't really like to be mentioned, but, but I'd say that that's another person who really is very formative and know some of the thinking. In my last 25 years here or so.

01:57:10 Rick

But my advice would be if you're really interested in dreams, you should.

01:57:18 Rick

And and you want to work on interpreting them, you should work with the Jungian based therapist.

01:57:24 Merrily

Mm.

01:57:26 Rick

And here's my reason for it. Number one, I think they just have the best.

01:57:33 Rick

Best interpretations for interpreting both you and what's going on with you with your dream.

01:57:43 Rick

The other reason is when you're when you get into dreams and visions and a lot of these things.

01:57:50 Rick

You know.

01:57:51 Rick

Could go internal and you can just become stark raving mad.

01:57:56 Rick

Right now, this is the guy that, when he was first introduced to.

01:58:04 Rick

Working with dreams as a therapist said.

01:58:08 Rick

Please what are you guys talking about here?

01:58:14 Rick

There's just dreams, right?

01:58:17 Rick

And I've since changed my mind on that to see some people that do they go too far in words?

01:58:26 Rick

We're not meant to only go inward.

01:58:28 Rick

Need to go outward.

01:58:29 Rick

We need to be part of the Community, so for that reason I would suggest being.

01:58:36 Rick

Being part of.

01:58:38 Rick

A union at.

01:58:39 Rick

A union group that can help guide you and keep you from going off the rails.

01:58:44 Rick

I know it sounds.

01:58:45 Rick

This really sounds weird. What I'm saying that's true.

01:58:48 Rick

I swear.

01:58:50 Rick

There's a book that I would recommend by Katherine Linscog, and I believe it's called the gift of dreams.

01:58:58 Rick

Hmm.

01:58:59 Rick

This book is written from a Christian perspective, right?

01:59:03 Rick

Mean. It's like heavily laden with Christian.

01:59:06 Rick

Stuff, but she gives a history of dreams that is second to none.

01:59:12 Rick

And she'll tell you about more authors that wrote their books based on the dreams they had.

01:59:19 Rick

Or or life paths that people have taken.

01:59:22 Merrily

Mm.

01:59:23 Rick

Brilliant book if you're in the dreams, that's a book you ought to have on your bookshelf for sure.

01:59:30 Rick

There's a local film, not a local film, but.

01:59:34 Rick

A local conductor for I don't know. I can't remember the Seattle Philharmonic or what? But.

01:59:44 Rick

This guy produced a film.

01:59:48 Rick

When he was diagnosed with cancer.

01:59:51 Rick

He.

01:59:52 Rick

Started dreaming of this dog.

01:59:56 Rick

This dog would teach him things.

01:59:58 Rick

And so he started painting his dreams with this dog.

02:00:07 Rick

And.

02:00:10 Rick

Damn, I'm gonna have to look that.

02:00:13 Rick

The name of this film up because people will look for it and be.

02:00:16 Rick

I can't find it.

02:00:17 Rick

I will get it for.

02:00:18 Rick

I can't think of the movie, but his wife.

02:00:19 Merrily

Yes.

02:00:23 Rick

He was thinking of his wife when he had this 'cause he knew he was dying and he.

02:00:27 Merrily

Yeah.

02:00:27 Rick

I'm I'm going to turn this into a film. My wife can sell it and she can live and I won't have to worry about her.

02:00:36 Rick

I've had the privilege of meeting her, having lunch and a wonderful woman.

02:00:44 Rick

But this this film will is it will just absolutely blow your mind.

02:00:51 Merrily

Wow.

02:00:52 Rick

It guaranteed.

02:00:55 Merrily

Well, well, no worries. Like, if you do, I'll also look and see if I can find it.

02:00:55 Rick

Wow. Why can't I think of the name of that?

02:01:01 Merrily

But if you do remember you can send it to me.

02:01:03 Merrily

I'll put it in the notes for sure.

02:01:04 Merrily

So that.

02:01:06 Merrily

So many great recommendations like so many new books that I have to buy, but that's OK.

02:01:13 Merrily

Mean, come on.

02:01:15 Merrily

Well, thank you, Rick.

02:01:16 Merrily

Usually you know, I know you're kind of like you kind of do your own.

02:01:20 Merrily

I usually ask if there's any sort of, you know, events or projects coming up that you wanna wanna let us to know about, but yeah.

02:01:30 Rick

Well, I have two projects in the works right now that I think I have 3.

02:01:36

Yeah.

02:01:37 Rick

One is I'm paying somebody to redo my website.

02:01:41 Rick

Which is going to primarily be selling books, but we're going to have some other juicy stuff in.

02:01:47 Rick

I hope.

02:01:48 Merrily

Oh cool.

02:01:49 Rick

Hopefully I don't screw it up.

02:01:51 Rick

That's why I paid somebody and I and I told her I said you got to keep me from screwing this up.

02:01:58 Rick

So that I'm hoping that'll be out in March.

02:02:03 Rick

That website.

02:02:05 Rick

And it's simply architecturalartworks.com.

02:02:09

Thanks.

02:02:09 Rick

And you can go.

02:02:10 Rick

Now and there's something, but it's lame.

02:02:12 Rick

OK.

02:02:12 Rick

OK.

02:02:16 Rick

And then I'm working on.

02:02:19 Rick

I want to have some.

02:02:22 Rick

Little sessions, two to three hours.

02:02:26 Rick

Where people can come to learn to read Greek.

02:02:30 Rick

And I can provide tools. You can get them off the Internet for free.

02:02:37 Rick

Where if you're interested in reading Greek, we could get you up in reading Greek. You don't have to be a Greek scholar.

02:02:46 Rick

There will be the use of Greek interlinear's that have the Greek and English right.

02:02:52 Rick

To learn it is so simple.

02:02:55 Rick

I think it's simple anyway.

02:02:57 Rick

And if you get into the Greek.

02:03:03 Rick

Language which I highly recommend you. You will be able to do things like let's say make it easy.

02:03:12 Rick

Test I.

02:03:13 Rick

Easy, because the New Testament's written in what's called Koine Greek, which is a common Greek.

02:03:17

Hmm.

02:03:20 Rick

Slightly dumbed down from classical what we know as classical Greek.

02:03:26 Rick

But to you're interested in.

02:03:31 Rick

Light.

02:03:34 Rick

Go to the book of.

02:03:36 Rick

The Gospel of John.

02:03:39 Rick

And just start looking for the word light and the Greek word is fotos, FOS.

02:03:46 Rick

And see where is light used.

02:03:49 Rick

Why is it used this way?

02:03:52 Rick

You don't have to be a Greek scholar to do this.

02:03:54 Rick

You don't have to depend on a pastor to figure it out for you.

02:03:59 Rick

You can simply look at it.

02:04:01

Hmm.

02:04:03 Rick

And see what's this all about. I mean, light, of course, is word.

02:04:07 Rick

Super powerful and all the mysteries, all religions.

02:04:14 Rick

But to see it first hand and experience it, it's to me it's just fun and it's.

02:04:20 Rick

Fun all right.

02:04:24 Rick

And then another thing I do.

02:04:25 Rick

Working on a short film.

02:04:28 Rick

Right. When I say short, I mean like 5 to 10 minutes long, but it'll be an alchemical process.

02:04:37 Rick

As seen through art and music that I've written for it. Wow, so could be a big bus, but it's all right.

02:04:49 Rick

Mean it's one of these things that.

02:04:52 Rick

Something inside says I have to do it so I have to do it.

02:04:56 Merrily

Yeah.

02:04:57 Rick

And it may be just to say, wow, this guy should not make films.

02:05:02

I'm OK.

02:05:04 Rick

Some of the music is really good though, I promise.

02:05:07 Merrily

How cool.

02:05:08 Rick

My opinion.

02:05:09 Merrily

Yes. How? Wow you are so.

02:05:12 Merrily

Goodness, like those are three really big projects. I'm very excited to.

02:05:17 Merrily

Learn more about your film and these Greek classes.

02:05:23 Merrily

Cause generally when you get into sort of the the at least the Western mysteries like it's you're kind of told you should learn Hebrew or Greek and probably Latin.

02:05:33 Rick

Yes, it's true.

02:05:34 Merrily

Yeah.

02:05:35 Rick

Well, I could bring.

02:05:37 Rick

I could bring those, though I could bring those in a simple, accessible way.

02:05:42

Yeah.

02:05:44 Merrily

So cool.

02:05:46 Merrily

Oh, thank you, Rick is there.

02:05:48

Let's see.

02:05:49 Merrily

So should people go to archetypal artworks to kind of find you? If they want to ask any questions or where would you direct them?

02:06:00 Rick

I'm trying.

02:06:01 Rick

I'm trying to remember to find the current iteration.

02:06:03 Rick

Has a address.

02:06:06 Rick

You know they can send me an e-mail at rick@archetypalartworks.com.

02:06:14 Merrily

OK.

02:06:16 Rick

And be happy to, you know, feel whatever questions.

02:06:20

OK.

02:06:23 Merrily

Yeah. So how long your links and also put your e-mail in the show notes so folks know to reach out to you.

02:06:32

Let's see.

02:06:33 Merrily

Oh, and I know I always have after everybody has shared all these wonderful words of wisdom, I ask for more words of wisdom to lead the audience.

02:06:43 Merrily

Is there any sort of last words that you would like to leave us with today?

02:06:48 Rick

Well, specifically for alchemy, I would say if if you interested in pursuing alchemy, there's a book called The Chemical Choir.

02:06:58 Rick

I want to say it's Walter Piggott anyway.

02:07:01 Rick

Chemical.

02:07:02 Rick

There's only one book.

02:07:04 Rick

By him and that has a great history of it. It takes you into Chinese alchemy.

02:07:13 Rick

All sorts of alchemical periods of time.

02:07:18 Rick

In a very scholarly yet I found it readable fashion.

02:07:23 Rick

Umm.

02:07:25 Rick

Marie Louise von Franz. Book on alchemy and I believe it's called active imagination and alchemy.

02:07:34 Rick

Brilliant, brilliant stuff.

02:07:37 Rick

Robert Bosniaks book on little dreams.

02:07:41 Rick

Little dreams on the little course on dreams is what it's called.

02:07:48 Rick

And.

02:07:50 Rick

Well, I mean I I could give you a book recommendations all day long.

02:07:54 Merrily

Oh yeah.

02:07:55

Yeah.

02:07:55 Rick

But I would just you know, I would say anybody who is interested in seeking to do so.

02:08:05 Rick

You know, I I would say try to temper yourself the the hardest thing when you learn something new is you want to water board everybody with it.

02:08:16 Rick

Particularly like something like Greek or Hebrew.

02:08:21 Rick

When someone learns it, I'm not speaking about myself. I'm talking about other people.

02:08:26 Rick

Yeah.

02:08:28 Rick

They they just are all of a sudden they've had one one lesson in 20 vocabulary.

02:08:34 Rick

Words and they're ready to reinterpret the Bible or rewrite Homer.

02:08:43 Rick

I am not an authority on Greek or Hebrew, though I should with the education I've had.

02:08:51 Rick

But I know enough at this point now.

02:08:55 Rick

That you can still enjoy it without.

02:09:00 Rick

Having to be tested on it right?

02:09:04 Rick

So it's really great stuff.

02:09:06 Rick

Yeah, just.

02:09:08 Rick

Be.

02:09:08 Rick

Seek you will find you will find and that doesn't always mean happy endings or.

02:09:16 Rick

No trips and traps.

02:09:18 Rick

But.

02:09:21 Rick

Life's as good as you make it, truly.

02:09:24 Rick

And if you get people to help you along the way, how fantastic is that?

02:09:30 Merrily

Very.

02:09:31 Merrily

Love it.

02:09:33 Merrily

Those are such great words of wisdom to leave us with.

02:09:37 Merrily

Well, thank you.

02:09:38 Merrily

I'm so happy you gave us so much of your time and you're willing to chat. And I know people are going to get so much out of this, especially with all the wonderful.

02:09:46 Merrily

Recommendations and just your stories.

02:09:49 Merrily

Thank you.

02:09:50 Rick

Well, my pleasure and thank you for doing what you do, I mean.

02:09:56 Rick

Keeping a positive podcast out there is just great. Really great.

02:10:01 Rick

So thank you.

02:10:03 Merrily

Thank you so much.

02:10:06 Merrily

Wow, what a journey we just took with Rick Harris from his early days as a book collector to his deep dives into alchemy, psychology, and esoteric wisdom, Rick shared some truly mind expanding.

02:10:06

The.

02:10:16 Merrily

So a huge thank you to Rick for sharing his wisdom, humor, and passion with us today. If you want to connect with him or check out his work, please take a look at the show notes below.

02:10:25 Merrily

You so much for turning into.

02:10:27 Merrily

Casual Temple if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, rate and share.

02:10:30

I.

02:10:31 Merrily

Really helps the show grow.

02:10:32 Merrily

Until next time, let's keep turning the lead in our lives into gold.

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EPISODE 49 - Rick Harris

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