Casual Temple

TRANSCRIPT

(Transcript is auto-generated; errors are unintentional.)

00:00:05 Merrily

Welcome to Casual Temple podcast episode 51, and I'm your host, Merrily Duffy at Casual Temple. Our mission is to discover our connection to the unseen world of spirit, and how that empowers us to know our true selves once to support our journey, subscribe and leave a star review on your favorite podcast platform we live hearing from you. So visit casualty.com to share your thoughts. Join our mailing list.

00:00:25 Merrily

For a chance to win a free order reading with me, merrily we pick a winner every month and your name stays in until

00:00:30 Merrily

You win. in today's episode of Capital Temple. We are honored to welcome a truly unique guest musician, storyteller, and Esoteric Explorer Emma Weidman, also known as the Given Ghost Emma Weidman, is more than just a musician. Neurosonic architect, crafting, ethereal soundscapes that transport listeners beyond the ordinary with a deep passion for esotericism, mysticism.

00:00:50 Merrily

The unseen and may weaves personal experience, philosophy, and spiritual insight into their creative process. In this episode, we'll explore Wegman's journey from an early seeker of his.

00:01:00 Merrily

Knowledge put a deep dive into Mars and Aries energy and its influence and creativity. We'll also discuss their experiences with the mystical, the unknown, and how these encounters shape both their music and world view. So Sutherland, with the Casual Tempo podcast as we step into the unknown together.

00:01:19 Merrily

Welcome to the Council, Temple today, our fabulous.

00:01:22 Merrily

Guest is Emma Weedman, AKA the Given Ghost, and he is not just a musician, but is a storyteller of the ethereal realm of soundscapes that take us on a journey beyond the ordinary. We'll talk about EMAS beginning as a seeker and as an esoteric enthusiast, and we'll explore the creative process of one of my favorite subjects.

00:01:43 Merrily

Mars and Aries Energy and how that helps or hinders the creative process. Emma, I'm so excited to have you on the casual temple.

00:01:51 M.A.

Hey, it's great to be here.

00:01:53 M.A.

Thank you for having me Marilee.

00:01:54 Merrily

Yes, thank you. Uh, and I just wanted to, you know, talk a little bit about where we met in the virtual room is on your friend and mine foolish fishes discord AKA Denny.

00:02:02 M.A.

Yes.

00:02:06 Speaker 3

Yep.

00:02:08 M.A.

Yep.

00:02:10 Speaker 3

Get out.

00:02:11 M.A.

Yeah. For real. He's been he's he's.

00:02:14 M.A.

He's a treasure. He really is.

00:02:15 Speaker 3

He held that.

00:02:16 M.A.

Yeah.

00:02:18 Merrily

I can feel him blushing, even though he can't see or hear.

00:02:21 M.A.

Oh, I know, I know. I'm sure he.

00:02:23 M.A.

Is, but that's part of what makes it so.

00:02:25 M.A.

Special, right, you know.

00:02:26 Speaker 4

Now.

00:02:27 M.A.

He he he remains humble. Yeah, he's so knowledgeable and so enthusiastic about all this stuff and he's built a broad community around him and you know, we got we wouldn't have.

00:02:32 Merrily

Oh my God.

00:02:35 Merrily

MHM.

00:02:38 M.A.

Met up without that, of course. And then, you know, the discord's growing. Yeah, he's he's a fabulous guy.

00:02:39 Speaker 4

No more.

00:02:44 Merrily

Yes, yes, I definitely met quite a few wonderful people in the flush discord that I think are awesome. So it's a really good place. People just saying.

00:02:55 M.A.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, to anyone watching or listening, if you haven't checked it out, you should. Yeah, a lot of stuff to learn, a lot of stuff to pick up on. He has a lot of really good videos, a lot of good insights, a lot of good.

00:03:00

Yeah.

00:03:07 M.A.

Book reviews is what yeah.

00:03:08 Merrily

Yes, got your pocketbook.

00:03:11 M.A.

Yeah. Yeah. No, you'll you'll be spending a lot of money, but.

00:03:14 Speaker 4

Ohh.

00:03:16 Merrily

Every time I like, leave him a comment, I'm like, yeah, just maybe spend some more money. Thanksgiving. Like, thanks a lot.

00:03:20 M.A.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, you know, $60.

00:03:23 M.A.

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

00:03:24 Merrily

I get yeah. Pump. Pump that out every week. Yeah. So so great. Yeah. And you like one of the reasons you always stuck out to me. You as like, a person in the.

00:03:34 Merrily

Discord that you know.

00:03:36 Merrily

You got to know, did you always have these, like, really thoughtful things to say about a lot of different subjects? And I'm always, like, paying attention when, like always, always that, like, great things to say.

00:03:42 Speaker 3

No.

00:03:44 M.A.

That that's so nice to know. Thank you.

00:03:46 Merrily

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's always nice to get a compliment, especially, you know, when you know, you are putting a lot of thought into what you say and and and when you interact with people I think is so helpful. So very cool.

00:03:58 Speaker 3

Well, thank you. So.

00:03:59 M.A.

Well, you know, I mean a lot of that we we live in a world where there's a lot of people that, you know, say things without thinking.

00:04:06

Hmm.

00:04:06 M.A.

Umm.

00:04:08 M.A.

You know, and obviously there's certain balance point. You know, you can't be skeptical all the time, right? But just taking a moment to, you know, take it back and think about what you say, consider what the person's saying, what their intent is and how, you know what information they're hoping to get, what they're looking for. And, you know, from there, you can kind of have a little bit of a moment of empathy there. We're thinking, OK.

00:04:30 M.A.

Well, this person really wants a certain thing. They're coming out from a certain position, and so, you know, trying to be.

00:04:39 M.A.

Thoughtful about that is really important, I think, especially if it's, you know, hard hardball subjects, you know, where, you know, you know, sometimes people are looking for answers because they're going through a hard time and, you know, you have to, at least in in my view, it's always better to try to approach that from a place of curiosity.

00:04:42 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:04:52 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:05:00 M.A.

In a place of trying to, you know, be a helping hand if you can.

00:05:04 Merrily

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's such a good way to approach, especially especially.

00:05:11 Merrily

Online communication, yeah.

00:05:14 Speaker 3

Yes, yes.

00:05:16 M.A.

Well, yeah. You know, so much gets lost and you know, especially in, you know, text communication, I mean you you can't really read someone's intentions clearly as clearly, you know, when there's a veil of.

00:05:18 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:05:22 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:05:27 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:05:30 M.A.

You know, certain, you know, physical cues and stuff that you just can't pick up on, so you're just reading things at face value. You're like, oh, no.

00:05:36 M.A.

Well, I guess I'll use emojis to.

00:05:39 Speaker 4

Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like.

00:05:39 Merrily

I'd.

00:05:41 M.A.

Oh well, I mean, I guess I'll. Yeah, just throw some of these in just to make sure that people don't think I'm, you know, being.

00:05:47 M.A.

A jerk or like, right?

00:05:48 Speaker 3

You know.

00:05:50 M.A.

Yeah.

00:05:51 Merrily

Yeah. Yeah, I do think my job my day.

00:05:55 Merrily

Job is in.

00:05:57 Merrily

In the tech industry, but I I answered a lot of emails and teams messages, so I feel like I'm kind of a queen of emojis like and I get. So I'm I'm good at messaging with.

00:06:05 M.A.

Yeah.

00:06:09 M.A.

Yeah. Because I mean, yeah, I mean that's a whole different. That's a whole different lexicon. There's like, OK, so there's.

00:06:15 M.A.

This text here.

00:06:16 M.A.

But I need to work in this image real quick, just to kind of soften what I'm saying a little bit. Maybe you know, but.

00:06:21 Speaker 3

Right. Yes, yes.

00:06:26 Merrily

Yeah, it's a. It's a definite balance. And you know you're doing really good is what I'm is what I'm.

00:06:31 Speaker 4

Seeing. Thank you, yeah.

00:06:31 M.A.

Well.

00:06:35 Merrily

Oh, well, let's you know, we kind of just start, especially since you're a first time guess kind of the beginning. Where were you consider your beginning as a musician or as an esotericist wherever you're led to start. Love to hear it.

00:06:48 Speaker 3

Well.

00:06:50 M.A.

You know.

00:06:52 M.A.

So I was raised in.

00:06:55 M.A.

Kind of a.

00:06:58 M.A.

Evangelical, you know, Protestant environment, you know, I grew up in the Nazarene church. I was, you know, born out in Little Rock, AR. And then I moved up to Kansas City when I was young.

00:07:10 M.A.

And.

00:07:12 M.A.

That denomination is pretty conservative historically. You know, they usually have, or at least at one point in time, they had, you know, bands on dancing and going to movies and doing all this other stuff.

00:07:17

Hmm.

00:07:27 M.A.

As well as you know the.

00:07:29 M.A.

Occasional fire or brimstone kind of approach or.

00:07:34 M.A.

Conveying one's place in the world, I guess is one way of.

00:07:37 M.A.

Putting it but.

00:07:39 M.A.

You know overtime.

00:07:42 M.A.

You know, when I was young, I had a lot of anxiety around that kind of stuff, you know? You know, a lot of the the fear of sin and the fear of, you know, punishment and all that stuff kind of really.

00:07:55 M.A.

It really kind of seeps into your pores when you're, you know, a child and that kind of led me toward.

00:08:04 M.A.

You know, you know, I read the Bible a lot when I was a kid and.

00:08:09 M.A.

You know, obviously the interpretations that I was surrounded by were very much literalist interpretations, ones that.

00:08:14

Hmm.

00:08:17 M.A.

Were more so informed by a more recent development, you know in interpretation, especially in evangelical circles, which is that of, you know.

00:08:26 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:08:29 M.A.

If you don't believe in Jesus, you know you're going to the lake of fire. I don't make the.

00:08:33 M.A.

Rules, right? So.

00:08:35 Merrily

Nice.

00:08:36 M.A.

So. So that's kind of a. So that was a kind of a point in which I was like, well. But the Bible also talks a lot about angels and demons and various other entities that are littered throughout the book that, you know, we're kind of glossing over a big portion of this here.

00:08:56 M.A.

And.

00:08:58 M.A.

Eventually.

00:08:59 M.A.

When I was young, I started having certain experiences where.

00:09:05 M.A.

There was once actually, that I remember very vividly. I was 11 years old.

00:09:10 M.A.

And I just taken a shower.

00:09:14 M.A.

And.

00:09:16 M.A.

I went downstairs after taking a shower and was going toward our living room where my brother, my mom, and my dad were. They were watching a movie and I looked down the hall and I see this translucent.

00:09:33 M.A.

Version of my grandfather, who had passed away when.

00:09:36 M.A.

I was 8.

00:09:37 M.A.

And I just looked and saw.

00:09:42 M.A.

This translucent entity that was very clearly.

00:09:47 M.A.

My family, you know and.

00:09:50 M.A.

I saw him walking across the kitchen and toward and into a light fixture. You know, it's like very bizarre stuff. And, you know, I didn't have any explanation for it. You know, I was just shocked. So I ran into the room. And, you know, my my parents, my brother just sitting there, looking at me, I'm like.

00:10:05 Merrily

Yeah.

00:10:11 M.A.

You see him?

00:10:12 M.A.

They're like, see who? What are you talking about? You know, like they're watching a movie. I'm like, well, you.

00:10:17 M.A.

Know you know our.

00:10:19 M.A.

Grandfather.

00:10:21 M.A.

Just walk through the kitchen and you didn't see him. They're like no, like and they kind of looked at me like I was nuts. But I was like, you know, this is this happened, you know, and oddly enough, actually my dad.

00:10:29 Speaker 3

Like.

00:10:31 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:10:35 M.A.

He had been having dreams around that point in time where he was talking to his dad.

00:10:41 Speaker 4

Ohh.

00:10:42 M.A.

And so there's a lot of like, there's interesting stuff there where it's like, OK, so maybe in some way there was this, this lingering of the presence of him, you know, so there's, there's that and a lot of other, you know, kind of scarier stuff, but.

00:10:52 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:11:02 M.A.

I yeah, I think that that might.

00:11:04 M.A.

Have been the starting point of where I was starting to look more into.

00:11:10 M.A.

You know what's behind the curtain? You know what's what's going on here? Because you know this, this book that has been, you know, sold to me as a literal truth that encompasses everything. Cannot explain this because, you know, there's only two places, right? You know, just up or down. Right. But but yet there are things here.

00:11:21 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:11:30 Speaker 3

Right.

00:11:30 M.A.

So so now you know it was my task to try to figure.

00:11:34 M.A.

That stuff out.

00:11:35 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:11:38 Merrily

Yeah, that's kind of definitely a scary thing, especially if like nobody else in your family is seeing it in your except sounds like your dad was kind of having his own sort of different experience, but.

00:11:48 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:11:48 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:11:50 Merrily

Yeah, that's like, so scary, especially as a.

00:11:52 Speaker 4

Kid. Uh.

00:11:54 M.A.

Yeah. No, it's hard. And you know, I mean, and I had I kind of had to.

00:12:00 M.A.

Be careful about who I was talking to and what information I was giving because you know.

00:12:04 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:12:07 Merrily

Right.

00:12:09 M.A.

The first thing that comes you know, is on the tip of people's tongues. Sometimes in those communities is, you know, possession or, you know, you are being influenced by malevolent entities that are making you hallucinate. And it's like, you know about that, maybe not. But yeah, that, you know, there could be that.

00:12:16 Speaker 3

Right.

00:12:21 Merrily

Mm-hmm.

00:12:24 Merrily

No.

00:12:29 M.A.

Yeah, a whole variety of other things potentially. So you know, it kind of started me out on looking and you know, doing a bunch of ghost hunting and you know looking into.

00:12:30 Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, that's enough.

00:12:42

Umm.

00:12:43 M.A.

Stuff pertaining to at that point in time, it was, you know, Waco was kind of the big thing.

00:12:49 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:12:50 M.A.

And so kind of looking into stuff like that for a while and.

00:12:55 M.A.

You know it's.

00:12:57 M.A.

I had other experiences where people, friends of mine, we were.

00:13:04 M.A.

You know, hanging out and, you know, going into these abandoned places and, you know, looking for ghosts and all this stuff. And we were young and there were times where, you know, that kind of stuff. Well, eventually if you go looking, eventually you find it. And, you know, there's just sometimes there are beings that are not wanting to be found or they just want.

00:13:25 M.A.

Alone. And they're like that. Yeah. Get you out of their space a little bit. So it really seems that way, you know, because if you're in a place that all of a sudden there's a bunch of loud, you know, loud noises and, you know, things shuffling around and very odd omens that are happening around you like.

00:13:25 Speaker 3

Right.

00:13:29 Speaker 4

Mm-hmm.

00:13:43 M.A.

Those once where we had we were in this abandoned dive factory, I think, and I think that's what it was, it was like right next to the train depot.

00:13:52 M.A.

And we were sitting in this back room and all of a sudden this Hummingbird comes flying in at like, 1:00 in the morning.

00:14:03 Merrily

That doesn't happen. Yeah.

00:14:05 M.A.

No, it doesn't. And it's sat on this rafter because this place is in disrepair. You know, all the ceilings are ripped out and you know everything is, you know, everything is in disarray. But the sobbing bird flew in about 10 feet were from where we were.

00:14:06 Merrily

How?

00:14:21 M.A.

And sat on a rafter completely still for.

00:14:27 M.A.

What felt like hours, but in reality it was probably just a couple minutes, but that was, you know, seeing that I was like, oh, no. Like, this is like, I don't know what this is, but this is bad. Like, like, this is, this is scary. But you know, all these things they kind of throw you.

00:14:32 Speaker 3

And.

00:14:40 Merrily

Ohh.

00:14:43 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:14:47 M.A.

Threw me into a rabbit hole of trying to look for.

00:14:51 M.A.

Answers who look for explanations and for a while there was a point where I identified as a pretty hard agnostic, took a lot of stuff, and to be honest, I mean still a little bit today. I mean the agnostic tendency is still there because I try not to get too far into.

00:15:08 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:15:13 M.A.

Being too certain of anything, right?

00:15:17 M.A.

Because otherwise, you know, we might fall into stocking certain delusions that you know might actually end up hurting us down the road. You know, as they're trying to have as clear of a picture as you can, you know, having the door wide open for uncertainty and for the unknown, while at the same time trying not to be.

00:15:27 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:15:31 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:15:38 M.A.

Swept away by things that may be too good to be true, so I try to keep that balance as best I can. But then there are things that happen. We're just like ****. I have no explanation for that. Like, like literally, it's just.

00:15:48 Merrily

I have no idea, yes.

00:15:51 M.A.

It These things lined up and they're just happening and I have no explanation for it, but it's nuts and the correlations are just too crazy and the the chances and the odds are just way too astronomical to have a rational explanation for it. So constantly living in that balance of skepticism and then also like.

00:16:11 M.A.

Oh my God. Like there is something really, really big out there, you know?

00:16:15 Merrily

Yes. Ohh gosh, yeah, for sure. Oh my gosh. I do want to say like I I feel very akin to that sort of idea of the.

00:16:25 Merrily

Sick for sure. I do feel that. But I think for me, I have to like I I think there's this, this analytical part of my brain. Like we talked about like our different like our different our signs and you know our different House placements and so mine is like a Virgo moon you know. And so it's a very analytical thing.

00:16:26 M.A.

Mm-hmm.

00:16:42 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:16:46 M.A.

Oh yeah.

00:16:46 Speaker 3

Uh.

00:16:47 Merrily

So I for myself, I have to like have some sort of, I call it my own personal cosmology, right? Because I need to figure.

00:16:53 Merrily

Out how to.

00:16:54 Merrily

Move right, you know, figure out to navigate.

00:16:55 Speaker 4

Oh yeah.

00:16:57 M.A.

Ohh yeah no, absolutely. And and understanding that stuff is, is it's incredibly powerful, you know, it helps you contextualize yourself in a way that.

00:16:57 Speaker 4

Oh.

00:16:58 Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah.

00:17:03 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:17:07 M.A.

Other methods can't.

00:17:09 Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah.

00:17:10 M.A.

And it helps you be able to operate in the world having more self knowledge and you know more self knowledge is always better than the last, yeah.

00:17:14

Hmm.

00:17:18 M.A.

You know, knowing all that stuff and understanding all the placements and understanding all the pathologies and the associations and correspondences, I mean, it's all, it's all very important for self self knowledge.

00:17:28 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:17:30 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:17:32 Merrily

Yeah, for sure. And I like the like your approach because it's very similar to mine. Like I like to leave the door open for being incorrect, being incorrect or being, you know, like having new information. Because if I look back at my life, it's just a series of getting new.

00:17:42 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:17:46 Merrily

Information. It's like, you know.

00:17:48 M.A.

Exactly, exactly. You know, and and that's The thing is that you know.

00:17:51 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:17:55 M.A.

Our limitations as percipient beings, you know we.

00:17:59 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:18:01 M.A.

Can only go.

00:18:02 M.A.

Off of what we can internalize from the outside world and maybe things that stir around and you know the inside of ourselves and.

00:18:06 Merrily

Right.

00:18:12 M.A.

We make the best guess, but, and we have to press on with that and that's actually part and parcel work for later. But you know it's, you know, the limitations that we do have eventually. You know, we have to take those along with us and do the best that we can with those limited.

00:18:16

Yeah.

00:18:19 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:18:28 M.A.

Actions in order to make a situation better for ourselves and everyone else. You know, because we're constantly operating on limited information and you know we just have to do our very best and you know that's why if you know if you have the spirit model, you know you know it's like OK like, hey, I have both this spirit, but nothing happened. It's like and it's probably.

00:18:35 Speaker 3

Yeah, for sure.

00:18:48 M.A.

You know, if it's out there, if it's a, you know, corporeal being in another dimension and it's probably screaming at you like.

00:18:53 M.A.

Why don't you get it?

00:18:54 Speaker 3

It's.

00:18:56 M.A.

I'm telling you, you know. But but we have limitations. You know, we can't know everything. So. So we just have to go off of, you know, the vague kind of signs that we get from the other side.

00:18:58 Speaker 4

Yeah, totally.

00:19:01 Speaker 3

No, man.

00:19:08 Merrily

That's too funny. I I love that that image you gave me because I saw it sort of like in our current reality, like us screaming at an Ant. Right. Like, why don't you get it? And it's the aunt is like what? You can't even tell, like, can't even hear us? I don't.

00:19:17 Speaker 3

Oh my God.

00:19:23 M.A.

It's like, you know, this big thing is a tree. It looks like a tree. It's big, like a tree, probably a tree. But then I'm sitting there like.

00:19:23 Merrily

Even know if that is.

00:19:25 Speaker 4

It's.

00:19:28 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:19:32 M.A.

Move like look like now here. Why are you on my counter? Yeah, like.

00:19:33 Speaker 3

Get off.

00:19:41 Merrily

Oh, that's too pity. Yeah, I do love thinking of those things. The macro micro thing. Like, what is actually going on. It's pretty crazy.

00:19:48 M.A.

Yeah, the big the big hermetic scale of being.

00:19:50 Merrily

Yes, like.

00:19:55 Merrily

Ohh not to get off too much of A tangent, but did you see Denny's talk with LON?

00:20:00 M.A.

I did.

00:20:01 Speaker 4

It was good.

00:20:02 M.A.

Oh, my God. Yeah, this is so good. No. Yeah. And there's watchers. Potty. Please do check that out. Another example of a very well informed, knowledgeable wise man who is also just humble as all get out. I mean, you know. Yeah.

00:20:04 Merrily

Why mileage to cat people?

00:20:08 Speaker 3

Yes.

00:20:10 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:20:13 Speaker 4

Yes.

00:20:22 M.A.

There's so little of that in the world, you know, it seems, you know.

00:20:27 M.A.

You know, a lot of the time, you know, you run into people that have these massive egos and you know, like what you're saying is valuable. I appreciate it. But I wish that it did not come with the, you know, the self aggrandizing kind of stuff, you know, but in.

00:20:44 M.A.

When you find people like Daniel and LON who?

00:20:47 M.A.

Are able to convey all this information.

00:20:48 M.A.

Very.

00:20:50 M.A.

Understandable, humble way. You just can't help but.

00:20:52 M.A.

Feel a little?

00:20:53 M.A.

Bit lighter. You know there's something. There's something that is kind of enriching about it where you see them, you know, person to person where even keel kind of thing. But also you have to have so much respect for the notes that they do have because they you know.

00:20:54 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:21:01 Merrily

Mm-hmm.

00:21:07 Merrily

Yeah. Yeah, I yeah, that's a that's such a great point.

00:21:13 Merrily

It's like because it it feels like, oh, you could walk up to either either of them and it you can feel like equal part, even though you're like, you have so much knowledge and you have, you know, but they're not going to, like, be * **** to you.

00:21:27 M.A.

Ohh no no, because you know you know, you know you know Allah see you know realistics of social media kind of thing but.

00:21:39 Merrily

Oh man, yeah. The reason I even brought that up was because we were talking the micro macro. And then LON was discussing in that interview about Nokia.

00:21:47 M.A.

Yes.

00:21:47 Merrily

Magic. And he was talking about the whole process of it is essentially understanding sort of the macro, the macro thinking of angels. And you're like what?

00:21:56 M.A.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, hey, by the way, let me infiltrate your brain for a little bit and, like, show you how outlandish the world outside of your understanding.

00:22:01 Speaker 3

Actually.

00:22:08 Merrily

Yes, for sure. Ohh my gosh. Ohh my gosh, it was so funny because my husband.

00:22:09 M.A.

Yeah, 9.

00:22:14 Merrily

And he is his own mistake. He does his own thing. But he was so funny because we were both watching that interview. And then he was like, oh, yeah, he's been, like, dragged around by Angela, like beans. Like, look at this and then, you know, give just given that knowledge. And he's like, yeah, it's like a freaking clock.

00:22:17 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:22:27

My goodness.

00:22:35 Merrily

OK. Yeah, it's just too funny.

00:22:38 M.A.

The task.

00:22:39 Speaker 4

Oh.

00:22:40 Merrily

Ohh gosh yeah, so you know you started had all these experiences as a kid, then started doing some ghost hunting. Did you have like any support from anybody being with you or around you or was it like books or kind of how did you in addition to the ghost hunting kind of get through?

00:22:46 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:22:49 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:23:00 M.A.

Well, you know, I will tell you there were a lot of very poorly designed HTML site.

00:23:07 M.A.

It's at that point in time, you know, it's like black magic.com with like, a a clip art torch, you know, kind of doing doing its thing. Yeah, it looks like Runescape or something. You know, there's a lot of that. But also, you know.

00:23:12 Speaker 3

Right.

00:23:15 Merrily

Oh my gosh. Yeah, coughing.

00:23:18 Speaker 3

Yes.

00:23:25 M.A.

I did turn, you know, at times to other texts. You know, I would, you know, go to, you know, the Torah and see what they you know what, you know, the Jewish scripture scriptures would say about.

00:23:41 M.A.

You know, death and the beyond and all that, and then, you know, reading a little bit of the the Gita and you know, just various other religious sources, you know, kind of go through there and try to get a broader idea of what other.

00:23:43 Speaker 3

Ah.

00:23:58 M.A.

Religions think in terms of those those lines in terms of what happens to the human soul and everything. Because you know at that point my life.

00:24:06 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:24:09 M.A.

I wasn't very convinced of the the two place argument. You know that the you know, the upstairs and the downstairs. Right? But.

00:24:17 M.A.

But then it's like, oh wait, you know, there's actually reincarnation, or there's just, you know, another place altogether, you know, which it's kind of like the underworld, but it's not bad, you know, kind of like in Greek mythology. And that's it's not necessarily bad, you know, if you're a bad person, they can be really bad. But if you're just a dude.

00:24:30 Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

00:24:38 M.A.

You're probably just walking around the dark a little bit and taking a nap. Maybe. I don't know, but.

00:24:43 Speaker 3

It's.

00:24:45 M.A.

But you know, so you know, I I would approach it that way where I would look at various systems and try to compare.

00:24:48 Merrily

Hmm.

00:24:54 M.A.

And then in terms of people that I had around me, the.

00:25:00 M.A.

I think the biggest, you know, partner that kind of helped me through that was actually there was a guy who his name was John he.

00:25:09 M.A.

Ran a shop in our town called Enchanted Gifts, and he had, you know, books on various types of mysticism and magic. And, you know, had amulets and pendants and swords and all this other stuff, you know, it was just a very eclectic kind of place. And then of course, they had, you know, those dragon statues and all that stuff.

00:25:30 Speaker 4

Ohh yeah.

00:25:30 M.A.

Like the early 2000s and all that.

00:25:33 M.A.

So I would sometimes go to John because he was part of a local coven, I believe.

00:25:43 M.A.

And I had, you know, I was, you know, 1314 year old kid. And I just would have questions and I'd go to him and I would ask certain things and he would provide a lot of very balanced. And he had very thoughtful types of answers to the questions that I had. So I kind of looked at him as a.

00:26:03 M.A.

As a guide a little bit, you know, whenever I had a chance to go into the store because, you know, he always had.

00:26:10 M.A.

You know, very insightful perspectives. You know, as compared to a lot of the other stuff, you know, the church community and everything else. And, you know, my friends were never really too much into that kind of stuff. Will save one friend of mine who is, he would go, go, go swimming with me a lot. You know, he bring his camera and everything.

00:26:30 M.A.

But.

00:26:32 M.A.

In terms of exploring, you know, esotericism and the ecology was kind of just me, you know, going through a lot of that. And so anytime I could go to enchanted gifts, I would and you know, get some, get some insight.

00:26:44 Merrily

Oh. Oh my gosh. The the people that own those, like those types of stores are such, uh, uh are.

00:26:52 Merrily

What do I?

00:26:53 Merrily

Was going to a refuge. I was going to say refuge. I was like, that's the refuge. Yeah. A refuge for people, for sure. I'm looking for alternative things.

00:26:57 M.A.

No.

00:27:00 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:27:03 Merrily

Yeah, that's so cool that you have that in your community. That's awesome.

00:27:07 M.A.

Yeah. And you know and.

00:27:11 M.A.

You know I've had.

00:27:12 M.A.

Good and bad experiences with various other shops, but you know it was always, you know, it was always. It was always great. He's always a good guy but and then the.

00:27:15 Merrily

Oh yeah, yeah.

00:27:20 Speaker 4

Ah.

00:27:25 M.A.

You know, eventually we got to the point where, you know, I was.

00:27:28 M.A.

You know, kind of looking at like Book of Shadow stuff doing like, you know, journaling and everything and doing meditations to try to get.

00:27:37 M.A.

You know some sort of visionary experience and everything. And I was kind of muddling together, you know, a, you know, a half baked Christian perspective and a half baked wicked perspective, you know, you know, I was young, but yeah, you know, it's all part of growth. But. But yeah, so a lot of that was there and then.

00:27:51 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:27:55 M.A.

Experimenting also with a couple of things like you know.

00:28:00 M.A.

Like praying to angels and Saints and trying to like have intercessions and things like that. When I was young just to try to.

00:28:07 M.A.

Go outside of the understandings that I had to see a little bit more of the the world of entities that are, you know, all around.

00:28:17 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:28:18 Merrily

Yeah. So you kind of did your own sort of exploration kind of felt your way through it sounds like.

00:28:24 M.A.

I tried to to very great success to very.

00:28:25 Merrily

Yeah, pretty much what everybody does. Yeah, that's that's the that's The Dirty for sure. Pretty much. It's like I've interviewed quite a few different people from.

00:28:37 Merrily

Doing what they're doing pretty much what happens. Everybody just starts kind of looking at different religions or they kind of try meditation and they, you know, see what's kind of working for them.

00:28:46 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:28:47 Merrily

And then kind of and then their path, the path opens up at some point, so.

00:28:51 Speaker 3

Yes, yes.

00:28:54 M.A.

And you know, and that path is sometimes obscure and but yeah, we have to walk it anyway. And there's anything like you're on a road, but.

00:28:57 Speaker 3

Yes.

00:28:59 Merrily

Oh yeah, you're right.

00:29:01 Speaker 3

Right, exactly.

00:29:04 Merrily

It's like I think I'm swimming there sometimes.

00:29:05 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:29:07 M.A.

Am I swimming? Am I walking? Am I dreaming you know?

00:29:10 Merrily

Yeah, like, I don't even.

00:29:12 Merrily

Know what space I'm in for sure.

00:29:15 Merrily

Definitely fun. Gosh, I do. UM.

00:29:20 Merrily

So during this time, was there any sort of books that you were kind of like you would recommend to somebody sort of starting out that you were reading?

00:29:30 M.A.

So.

00:29:31 M.A.

Well, you know, umm, a lot of it was so much informed by.

00:29:35 M.A.

You know.

00:29:36 M.A.

Early 2000s and.

00:29:39 Speaker 3

Like.

00:29:40 M.A.

Early 2010's Internet that I was kind of like, you know, I was kind of bouncing around between various sources, some good and some bad. I mean later on though, I mean, I started looking into Agrippa when I started looking into, you know, various other mystical approaches like, say.

00:29:42 Speaker 3

Oh yeah.

00:29:48 Merrily

Oh, gotcha.

00:30:00 M.A.

You know the cloud of unknowing which, you know, didn't he very, you know.

00:30:06 M.A.

Very graciously provided us with that review that he was featured on when he wrote the introduction of that book. And yeah, you know, I started looking into that. And then I also.

00:30:16 Speaker 3

So.

00:30:18 M.A.

I kind of approach things from a little bit more of a philosophical perspective. So actually there's.

00:30:24 M.A.

Books that are.

00:30:26 M.A.

Way too long and sometimes hard to read. But you know, Hegel's phenomenology of Spirit is a very.

00:30:33 M.A.

It's a very good.

00:30:36 M.A.

Way to try and understand.

00:30:40 M.A.

The human being in the world and how the changes in time throughout our experience.

00:30:47 M.A.

Are a series of forces colliding together to make?

00:30:53 M.A.

A synthesis.

00:30:54

Hmm.

00:30:54 M.A.

Combination. So it's like all of these, you know these contrary forces and ideas are, you know, constantly in conflict with each other. And then eventually there is a, you know, what he calls sublation that where eventually they fuse together. And then from there, the wheel of history just continues to churn with all these conflicts eventually resolving into a synthesis worked into his.

00:31:14 Speaker 4

Oh.

00:31:14 M.A.

Relation or unity and so.

00:31:18 M.A.

So that's definitely at least I'd recommend that book. It's you know that he wrote it in German back in, like the Napoleonic era. And so like the translations, depending on which one you get.

00:31:32 M.A.

Might be kind of.

00:31:33 M.A.

Difficult because he uses a lot of.

00:31:35 M.A.

Technical jargon and all that.

00:31:38 M.A.

But.

00:31:40 M.A.

If you're willing to slog through it, or if you want to go through the audiobook, found that helpful, that is something I definitely recommend. I'm also. I also have a huge soft spot for Albert Camu. He had the existentialists and everything because they were the ones that are asking a lot of these big questions of like, you know, what is?

00:32:00 M.A.

The purpose of human existence in the world, and what is my place in this brand? You know, emergence of, you know, cosmic materia and everything, and what is their purpose? I don't know. And then of course, with the myth of Sisyphus, he talks about.

00:32:15 M.A.

You know, one must think this this happy rolling the boulder up the hill. You know where you have to continue to try to make your own meaning out of it, despite the fact that there's no.

00:32:25 M.A.

Indication otherwise from the greater world that there is a, you know, larger plan or purpose. We have to continue to make our own.

00:32:34 M.A.

So a lot of that, I think a lot of my approach to esotericism is very much informed by that where it's like well on one hand.

00:32:43 M.A.

But the rational side of me sees the world as it this amalgamation of forces and things and events and all this stuff.

00:32:51 M.A.

But and you know what, that might necessarily mean than the other side of me? You know, things, you know, the more.

00:32:57 M.A.

Metaphysically inclined side would think well, you know, there has to be relationships between all this and there has to be a greater.

00:33:07 M.A.

Force at play that I can tap into and engage with, and so it's it's kind of straddling that line and through the process is, you know, trying to.

00:33:17 M.A.

Makes sense of yourself through self knowledge and exploration, and so a lot of that is very much intrinsically.

00:33:26 M.A.

Informed by existentialism in a way, because we have to 1st know our position before we can know anything else.

00:33:32 Merrily

Right.

00:33:34 Speaker 4

Ah.

00:33:35 Merrily

Like, how do you?

00:33:36 Merrily

Move.

00:33:37 Merrily

How do you move anywhere if you don't know where you're at?

00:33:40 M.A.

Exactly. And you know, and and I could be completely wrong. You know, I could be, you know, just, you know, completely blind to.

00:33:41 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:33:49 M.A.

The fact that.

00:33:50 M.A.

I'm a reincarnated soul from 1639 and maybe I don't know, but.

00:33:58 M.A.

So far as I can tell.

00:34:00 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:34:00 M.A.

As far as I can tell, we just have to work on what we have and try our best to construe the best of what we can from it.

00:34:04 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:34:08 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:34:09 Merrily

I mean, that's yeah.

00:34:11 Merrily

I think that's a good perspective because then it's just.

00:34:14 Merrily

Yeah. Then the rest of it is like, OK, that's cool. Yeah. I just, I gotta. I gotta do this right in front of me right now. Yeah.

00:34:18 M.A.

Yeah, yeah.

00:34:23 M.A.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00:34:26 Merrily

Ohh man yeah, I did want to. Did want to definitely talk about some of your evolution into music for sure. So would you like to talk about especially you know your your project that's really cool to give and.

00:34:34 M.A.

Yes, of course, of course.

00:34:41 Merrily

Go.

00:34:41 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:34:42 Merrily

Listen to some of the tracks which are really cool. Like I love contemplative.

00:34:46 Merrily

Meditative music.

00:34:48 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:34:49 Merrily

Yours has like a different layer to it that I think is really cool because you have like the the soundscapes which is kind of a kind of shamanic.

00:34:56 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:34:58 Merrily

In a lot of.

00:34:58 Merrily

Ways for sure, it feels very more shamanic than like a meditation.

00:35:04 Merrily

But in a good way. It's like you can just kind of.

00:35:06 Merrily

Let it take you like.

00:35:08 M.A.

Yeah, and and actually I.

00:35:10 M.A.

Love that because you know it's.

00:35:11 Merrily

Hmm.

00:35:15 M.A.

When you're creating music like that.

00:35:18 M.A.

A lot of the time, you know, you can go for, you know, pure, purely pleasant sounds that are relaxing.

00:35:23 Speaker 3

Yeah, right.

00:35:25 M.A.

And that can be useful, but there's also another side of it where.

00:35:30 M.A.

At least in my own perspective.

00:35:33 M.A.

With composing you have to, you know, kind of.

00:35:38 M.A.

If you want people to have have both attention toward the music and also having a an experience with it.

00:35:47 M.A.

You know through.

00:35:48

Right.

00:35:49 M.A.

Calming effects but also intrigue. You have to kind of throw in some elements there that have a little bit of grit and maybe a little bit of, you know, peculiarity and strangeness, you know, try to, you know, get the attention to, you know, gravitate towards that and figure out what's going on and but then eventually.

00:35:52 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:35:59 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:36:07 M.A.

From that you end up kind of becoming hypnotized a little bit and the process of creating it definitely hypnotic because.

00:36:15 Speaker 4

Alright, yeah.

00:36:16 M.A.

Like I've spent, I've spent hours just going through a mix and just listening to the same thing over and over again. And just like you're kind of in a trance where, like you're like, eventually you're looking at this thing, you're like, this is creating itself. I'm not doing anything right because you're just that in that state of mind on that frequency where.

00:36:25 Speaker 3

Right.

00:36:32 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:36:36 M.A.

We're just creating and interfacing directly with this thing that came from yourself, slowly emerging out into the world, you know.

00:36:45 Merrily

Hmm.

00:36:46 Speaker 3

Hey.

00:36:46 Speaker 3

And.

00:36:47 M.A.

In terms of, you know, musical beginnings and stuff, because I know that we wanted to touch on that, oddly enough.

00:36:58 M.A.

My initial interest when I was young because I never took music lessons or anything when I was a.

00:37:04 M.A.

Kid, you know my well.

00:37:06 M.A.

Until I hit 11, you know, I I was never in a family that made me practice the piano or made me play certain instrument, right. Initially, I was interested in Taekwondo.

00:37:14 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:37:18 M.A.

Like I was, I was like hell. Yeah. Like this is cool. Like, you know, sparring karate like, you know, like doing punches and kicks and, you know, all that stuff. That's awesome. And I was doing that for a while.

00:37:31 M.A.

Got my orange belt and eventually.

00:37:35 Speaker 3

The.

00:37:36 M.A.

Studio that I was doing that at.

00:37:39 M.A.

Went up to my dad and they're they're like, OK. Yeah. So this is this is great. So first year was awesome. Second year it's gonna be $2000 and you know, keep in mind at that point in time it was 2004 and he was like, no.

00:37:53 Merrily

That's a lot, yeah.

00:37:54 M.A.

A lot of money back in 2004 and so he's like, no, we're not doing it so.

00:37:56 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:37:59 Merrily

So.

00:38:00 M.A.

So then you know, shortly after that actually a a family friend that was having a garage sale. And I went over there.

00:38:10 M.A.

And I saw that they had this old.

00:38:13 Speaker 3

For.

00:38:13 M.A.

Four string bass electric bass from you know the 70s maybe? Yeah, kind of still had a little bit of the kind of tobacco stain on the on the thicker boards and everything, you know? And I was like, that is cool. That is freaking awesome. And so like, I just, I saw that and immediate was like, I want to play that. I want to learn.

00:38:20

Hmm.

00:38:31 M.A.

How to play that right?

00:38:32 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:38:33 M.A.

And so they sold it to us for like 50 bucks and.

00:38:37 M.A.

And then from there you know I had this thing and I was messing around with it and I asked, you know, my parents to get lessons for it. And my dad being the, you know, very, you know, practical kind of guy that he is. He was, he said, OK, well listen.

00:38:55 M.A.

You need to kind of prove to me that you want to do this, so you're going to have to learn a few things on your own before I'll invest, you know, money into pay for lessons, and so. And so I did. So I learned, you know, come together from The Beatles and all this other stuff. And eventually he's like, all right, yeah, you put your time in. Let's get you lessons. And so.

00:39:05 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:39:16 M.A.

Then from there my teacher.

00:39:20 M.A.

His name is Dan.

00:39:22 M.A.

He taught me for about.

00:39:26 M.A.

Five or six years, actually, and he had told me that if I wanted to do anything in college pertaining to playing bass or being in music, I'd probably need to learn something akin to a classical instrument. So I learned the upright and start playing in orchestra in high school.

00:39:41

Hmm.

00:39:46 M.A.

And eventually college and all that. And then.

00:39:49 M.A.

You know, learning.

00:39:51 M.A.

Music theory and composition and all that stuff. And you know, just over the years, my love for the art has just grown so much and it's weird to think that the origins were me at a garage sale, you know, like, there's something to be said.

00:40:10 M.A.

About looking back and seeing how all the cards were stacked and I think like man like that was the beginning of it like that.

00:40:18 M.A.

Like I just saw an instrument in someone's driveway, and then it just spurred all of this to, you know, this album. And you know, every other musical project I've been involved in that has just been so incredibly meaningful. It's just interesting to see.

00:40:34 M.A.

Oneself throughout time, and how all these things end up developing, you know how it's just a big tapestry that's being rolled rolled out.

00:40:41 Merrily

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's such a good, well, good connection point. Because yeah, when you're explaining that, it's like, yeah, you. When you do look back at your life, you're like, yeah, that one thing if I wasn't there or that didn't happen or I didn't see the guitar, you know, like.

00:40:56 Merrily

Where would I? You know, where would I be? And it just seems so innocuous at the time. Or just like wandering by.

00:41:01 M.A.

Yeah.

00:41:06 Merrily

Yeah. So it is like is it, is it planned? Is it chaos? I don't know. But it was right.

00:41:10 M.A.

Yeah.

00:41:11 Merrily

In front of you, yeah.

00:41:12 M.A.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of there being, you know, kind of a, you know, guiding shell for, you know, towards certain things, you know, because.

00:41:22 Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:27 M.A.

You know I.

00:41:29 M.A.

There are just certain things that happen during our lives where it almost feels like it's a title like, you know, kind of a riptide that's pulling you in. We're just like, I'm, I'm being sucked in. There's nothing I can do about it. Like, this is awesome. Like, you know, like all of, you know, all of the the forces around me are pulling me in a direction.

00:41:38 Merrily

Mm-hmm.

00:41:44 Speaker 4

Yeah, like, I guess, yeah.

00:41:49 M.A.

I just need to go, you know, and so. And part of the, you know, being involved and, you know, the esoteric is being able to read out that kind.

00:41:52 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:41:57 M.A.

Of stuff and.

00:41:58 Speaker 4

Yes.

00:41:59 M.A.

Those those kinds of tendencies and patterns is just being able to know when you're.

00:42:05 M.A.

In a certain gravitational orbit that you're coming in, you know being something or certain potentiality and eventuality when it becomes manifest, you're like, OK, well, Yep, I'm here. This is what's gonna happen. I'm. I'm on my way. See you guys later, you know, like.

00:42:09

Mm-hmm.

00:42:20 Merrily

Oh.

00:42:21 Merrily

Oh gosh, yeah. Beautifully explain. Yeah, I've been trying to like article.

00:42:24 Merrily

Like that to, for myself and other people, that's such a good explanation. Yeah, the way I've, like, sort of formed it in my mind is like railroad tracks in a way. But the railroad tracks I like. For me, the railroad tracks makes sense because, you know, I always think of, like, the old in time movie rails where you have to see the little guy run up. And he has to.

00:42:45 Merrily

Actually, it's to pull the.

00:42:47 Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God.

00:42:48 Speaker 3

To.

00:42:49 Speaker 3

1.

00:42:51 Merrily

So it's like there's got to be a little bit of effort you know, but then the track is on the right track and then you see kind of have an idea of where the end should be and what you're visualizing the manifestation part.

00:43:02 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:43:03 Merrily

Yeah. And it is like feeling, that's all the, that's all magicians are doing, man. We're just like the potentialities. Like, which one do I want because.

00:43:09 Speaker 3

You know.

00:43:12 Merrily

Like there's too many choices.

00:43:14 M.A.

Yeah. Well, and and that's, you know, and that's part of it.

00:43:16 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:43:16 M.A.

Being that we're.

00:43:18 M.A.

These, you know, time these we are these creatures of time and you know with that comes certain limitations and.

00:43:21 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:43:25 M.A.

Certain kinds of structures where we have to make a choice within those limitations to do certain things because you know.

00:43:30 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:43:36 M.A.

You know, save the, you know, idea that we're being reincarnated infinitely in this life.

00:43:42 Speaker 3

Sure.

00:43:44 Speaker 3

I don't know.

00:43:44 M.A.

That so it's like right now there's.

00:43:48 M.A.

So many choices. There's an infinite number of them. Really just need to make a decision about which one is best. One for the times that I'm in now because.

00:43:50 Merrily

Yes.

00:43:53 Speaker 3

Exactly.

00:43:58 M.A.

You don't get another try sometimes and you're like, OK, well, I just have to try to do this. But you know, and sometimes with that comes discernment, you know, because we have so many thoughts kicking around in our head at any given time that, you know, and our desires are, you know, pull us in various directions and everything to where eventually.

00:44:07 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:44:18 M.A.

Having a certain clarity around that, and I think that this what the practice helps you with is being able to try to discern what.

00:44:27 M.A.

You know what direction you need to go in her. The higher self or the HGA or you know the ancestors or whichever forces are kind of propelling you toward better life. You have to kind of be in touch with yourself to at that point to be able to try to make that determination because.

00:44:47 M.A.

Everything is a chaos of sensation and you know, desires and thoughts and everything.

00:44:52 M.A.

It's it's, it's madness. But but you're able to kind of tap in a little bit to those subtle forces and it'll help you, you know, reach a better place and reach a better place of understanding to make the better choices, to move more gracefully throughout.

00:44:54 Speaker 3

Yes, yes.

00:45:02 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:45:12 M.A.

Time you know.

00:45:14 Speaker 4

Yes.

00:45:15 Merrily

Oh my gosh, yes. Again, beautifully explained. I love. I love that. Especially I guess now I definitely still want to talk because there's so much great stuff about your music and like even the the name of the given guys. No, no, no, I'm. This is what we do here.

00:45:26 M.A.

Yes, I know I I keep getting this off track a little bit.

00:45:31 Merrily

It's fine, OK.

00:45:33 Merrily

I'm definitely going to keep it in there.

00:45:35 Merrily

Have it as my notes, but because you mentioned subtle forces and I know one of the things we're chat about is planetary energies, my favorite.

00:45:45 Speaker 3

Yes.

00:45:46 Merrily

And specifically Mars and Aries. So like where do you wanna? Where do you wanna start with that? Like, what's your experience with Mars and Aries that you were kind of for three years?

00:45:56 Speaker 3

Well.

00:45:58 M.A.

Well, I got a lot.

00:46:01 M.A.

Mainly because you know, if you look at it from the zodiacal perspective in terms of my chart and everything, I got a lot of Scorpio like it's.

00:46:13 Speaker 3

That's.

00:46:14 M.A.

It's a lot, it's, you know, 6 plants worth. It's just it's a lot. And so yeah, I know which.

00:46:19 Speaker 3

6.

00:46:23 M.A.

When I learned that when I was learning the significance of it and the, you know, the symbolic interplay of, you know, signed the planet and the methodologies of those things, I wanted to try to understand it a little bit more. You know what does?

00:46:31

Mm-hmm.

00:46:40 M.A.

What does you know the importance of a Mars rulership? Traditionally, what the sign mean.

00:46:46 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:46:46 M.A.

So I was looking into it and you know, I came across the orbital and you know that was actually kind of my first.

00:46:55 M.A.

You know, dipping my toes in a little bit was looking at the way that the orbital lays out evocation because it's simple. You know that there's no, I mean, it's not necessary to have a bunch of, you know, accoutrements and, you know, ritual.

00:47:14 M.A.

Your regalia and you know everything else you know, you know Golden Dawn style. You don't necessarily need to do.

00:47:19 M.A.

That you know.

00:47:21 M.A.

You know, obviously there's the bell and you know weighing.

00:47:24 Speaker 4

It will.

00:47:25 M.A.

Sunrise and you know, reading songs and everything, but yeah.

00:47:29 Speaker 3

I kind of.

00:47:30 M.A.

Went about it a different way because oddly enough, you know, because the planet that you're dealing with is that of imposing limitations.

00:47:39 Speaker 3

MM.

00:47:40 M.A.

Sometimes things happen that get in the way of the perfect circumstances, right?

00:47:47 M.A.

So, you know, I've been doing readings with tarot and everything to try to figure out because I was exploring astrology and you know, the nail chart and all this stuff and also learning tarot. And I was like, OK, so.

00:48:00 M.A.

I'm asking the deck like, OK, so.

00:48:02 M.A.

What should I be working with? What should I be looking for or what should I be doing and Mars just kept coming out, you know, just consistently. OK, so like this is what I have to do.

00:48:09 Speaker 4

Wow.

00:48:14 M.A.

So.

00:48:16 M.A.

You know? And then I come across the orbitel and.

00:48:20 M.A.

You know, I ended up trying to do my best rendition of what that might be, right, or calling, you know, an Olympic spirit of of the spirit of March. Right and.

00:48:32 M.A.

Uh.

00:48:35 M.A.

I will tell you I was wanting to do it on, you know, in the way that they described in the book. I promise. I tried, but as soon as I did, you know, I woke up that morning, you know, I was like, alright, I'm going to do this.

00:48:53 M.A.

Eventually, you know, or immediately my cat starts vomiting.

00:48:57 M.A.

It's like, you know, sick and.

00:48:59 Merrily

Classic, yeah.

00:49:00 Merrily

OK. Yeah, I have to go.

00:49:01 M.A.

To the vet, you know? OK. Like this is what happened right now. So, uh, shuttle them off to.

00:49:07 M.A.

That and sit there for four or five.

00:49:10 M.A.

Hours and you know.

00:49:11 Merrily

Yeah.

00:49:13 M.A.

And you know, very expensive, very worried, very, you know.

00:49:16 Speaker 3

Ohh yeah.

00:49:18 M.A.

And you know I'm.

00:49:18 Speaker 3

Right.

00:49:21 M.A.

Trying to, you know, figure out what to do with that and then you know, you know, a bunch of it was like, well, OK, the house and that. So I have to like, make sure the house in order make sure I do all this stuff, you know, all these other things start emerging to where it's like a hindrance.

00:49:35 Speaker 3

Right.

00:49:35 M.A.

The intention of me wanting to do this thing that has you know which the decks have been telling me like, hey, do this, do this you have to do this, right? So or at least that's how I was.

00:49:46 M.A.

Putting it and so eventually it gets to the point where it's like, OK, it's 7:00 PM that night. I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it like, like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna do it because it almost seemed as though with all of the things that were emerging that day, because I was also getting a phone call was like, hey.

00:50:06 M.A.

By the way, I have COVID and.

00:50:07 M.A.

Hey, but you know, like literally it's like, like family members were.

00:50:10 M.A.

Calling it like it was insane.

00:50:11 Speaker 3

Why today? Yeah, it's like.

00:50:13 M.A.

OK, well, today is definitely the day for doing that. Awesome, so.

00:50:18 M.A.

And so it's 7:00 PM and I'm like, you know what?

00:50:20 M.A.

I'm just going to do it.

00:50:22 M.A.

And.

00:50:23 M.A.

It was a lot different than anything else I've ever done. You know, in terms of the the result of it, you know, the bodily response and there was some, like, clear audience kind of stuff like sounds kind of big for when, whenever I've done anything like that. And that was a lot more was a lot more present.

00:50:34 Speaker 3

Hi.

00:50:43 M.A.

And then things that I had worked with in the past and.

00:50:47 M.A.

You know, and it was almost as if.

00:50:51 M.A.

You know, I was hearing.

00:50:53 M.A.

Ringing in my ear in response to questions.

00:50:58 M.A.

And so it's like a very loud like resonant ring that was like felt close to me and my, you know oral perception was like a yes.

00:51:05 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:51:08 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:51:09 M.A.

A more distant but palpable it's like an or like you know, so it's like, but also there's the bottle, you know, people have talked about bodily pressure when you're, you know, experiencing that. And that was definitely there. So.

00:51:13 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:51:19 Speaker 3

Yes.

00:51:23 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

00:51:24 M.A.

That's definitely something that had occurred to I I walked away from that afterwards with kind of a foot in the door where, you know, there was this contact that I had that I could kind of ask questions to. And I just be like, OK, like, so.

00:51:41 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:51:44 M.A.

You know what does this mean? What's this? What kind of knowledge could I gain from this? You know, what is your nature? You know all of these things and.

00:51:56 M.A.

And so from that.

00:51:59 M.A.

Three years ago, as well as everything else that's ensued since I've kind of come to, at least, I hope, a somewhat informed.

00:52:09 M.A.

You know, place. Yeah. And that is that Mars is not. And I repeat it is not a planet of machismo, is not a planet of being a barbarian and being hyper violent. And I feel as though oftentimes people get that wrong.

00:52:30 M.A.

People often, and obviously it's the.

00:52:31 M.A.

Warrior archetype, right, you know and.

00:52:36 M.A.

There's, you know, a place for it. But I feel like that's just it's not really capturing the full scope of what?

00:52:45 M.A.

That archetype is, you know, because I told you before. But you know the warrior poet.

00:52:51 M.A.

As an archetype exists for a reason, you know there's both the.

00:52:56 M.A.

You know, noble soldier, that also has emotional knowledge and understanding of oneself and one circumstances. You know, it's not solely being a.

00:53:08 M.A.

You know, blood less driven individual. It's more so having a balance of knowing to act when you need to and to try to balance oneself in the midst of an unpredictable world, you know, and to try to do that in a strategic way for the purpose of peace. You know, that's why.

00:53:16 Speaker 3

Right.

00:53:23

Mm-hmm.

00:53:28 Speaker 3

Thank you.

00:53:29 M.A.

They're in the architel. They described fall leg these.

00:53:33 M.A.

Spirit of Mars, as the Friends of Peace, which is at one point it seems ironic if you have the perspective of like, OK, Well, Mars is a war monger that wants to engage in warfare. Like that's that's crazy. But when you start.

00:53:40 Merrily

Right.

00:53:48 Speaker 3

Right.

00:53:52 M.A.

Kind of unraveling the.

00:53:56 M.A.

I guess the archetypes and the mythologies around it. What you end up having is.

00:54:02 M.A.

A much more.

00:54:05 M.A.

Oh, I guess a much more humanized view of what it is for Mars, because if you go through the the numerology and the kabbalistic associations. So the number 5 is Mars's, you know, the planet Mars is, you know, position in the tree of life in the tarot.

00:54:25 M.A.

All of the minor arcano is associated with Debra and five, you know, with Mars.

00:54:31 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:54:31 Speaker 3

How?

00:54:32 M.A.

Ever.

00:54:33 M.A.

5 is also the number of the pentagram. It's the number of the of the elements coming together and through their coalescence, bringing about spirit. So in in that very.

00:54:42 Speaker 4

Right.

00:54:46 M.A.

In that wheelhouse is also a Marshall Association where we.

00:54:53 M.A.

If we imagine ourselves kind of like how they do in Agrippa, where you have the fivefold.

00:54:57 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:55:00 M.A.

Part of the body with the head, the arms and the legs, you know, representing the human being.

00:55:06 M.A.

That is an expression of martial archetype. Because of the numerological associations and because of the very fact that it's.

00:55:18 M.A.

You know an expression of humanity.

00:55:22 M.A.

Itself.

00:55:24 M.A.

And and so the way that I've come to understand it from all of this is.

00:55:32 M.A.

Actually, I'll backtrack.

00:55:35 M.A.

If you look at.

00:55:37 M.A.

The Sigil of Mars Circle and the arrow.

00:55:42 M.A.

Those are technically 2 objects. You have the shield circle and then the sphere that is the arrow looking object.

00:55:51

2.

00:55:52 M.A.

If you think about what those symbols mean.

00:55:56 M.A.

The sphere is an imparting force. It is one that goes out.

00:56:01 Speaker 3

Yeah.

00:56:03 M.A.

It appears.

00:56:04 M.A.

The the shield is a receiving force because it's receiving battering from outside and so from there you have kind of a.

00:56:15 M.A.

Twofold relationship between, say, Aries being the active principle of fire with the piercing and imparting, yes, Scorpio as the shield.

00:56:25 M.A.

Being the receiving since it's water and so you have the two primal elements.

00:56:32 M.A.

Represented individual itself.

00:56:35 Speaker 4

Hey.

00:56:35 M.A.

And from there.

00:56:38 M.A.

You start to see a little bit, a little bit more the side of a more humane.

00:56:44 M.A.

But yet still relatable side of that energy.

00:56:49 Speaker 3

Hmm.

00:56:49 M.A.

And from there you know if you are to look at bars from a more complicated or not complicated, complex and nuanced.

00:56:57 M.A.

Point of view.

00:56:59 M.A.

What you end up getting is an analog to our own experience. We are these five fold beings that are in the world.

00:57:08 M.A.

You know, full of limitations or actually rather imposing our own limitations, because has said is coming over on one side with all of its boundlessness we have to try to make sense of that by making our own boundaries, our own limitations. So that way we could try to operate within it, because otherwise it be chaos.

00:57:13

Hmm.

00:57:17 Speaker 4

Right.

00:57:27 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:57:28 M.A.

And of course you have, you know Gina.

00:57:30 M.A.

'S up top.

00:57:32 M.A.

And so it's us trying to battle the chaos of the outside world, but also, you know, if you look at the tree of life looking upward and seeing time, eventual death, you know all and being A and so in reality, Gebra and Mars is an expression.

00:57:43 Speaker 3

Right.

00:57:52 M.A.

Of our lived experience of living in.

00:57:56 M.A.

Within the realities of knowing that life will bring pain that will bring loss and that will bring violence potentially or that will bring just general suffering that that, so that would be that acknowledgement would be more the watery side of.

00:58:06 Speaker 3

MHM.

00:58:11 M.A.

It of the.

00:58:12 M.A.

You know, knowing that all those things are going to come.

00:58:15 Merrily

Yeah.

00:58:16 M.A.

But then the fiery side of it is the will toward self preservation and trying to navigate through that despite.

00:58:26 M.A.

The fact that there's going to be suffering despite the fact that there's going to be pain and despite the fact that eventually we all die, you know, that's why in a way, Stoicism is actually very much a martial philosophy. You know, you have people like Marcus Aurelius and all the all the Stoic guys, you know, they are essentially the ones that are trying to tell you, like, hey, you're going to experience a lot of bad stuff.

00:58:42 Merrily

MHM.

00:58:48 M.A.

But the only thing that you can try to do is control what how you respond to things and how you navigate the world. That's the only thing you can do, because otherwise you're just building yourself up more suffering and so.

00:58:59 Speaker 3

So.

00:59:00 M.A.

In a way, Deborah and Mars is an acceptance of that reality, and knowing that you have to press on anyway because there's a sense of responsibility that comes with it to yourself and other people. And so the notion of.

00:59:13 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:59:17 M.A.

Protecting oneself, protecting the things that you should protect, and striving forward despite pain. Despite you know, loss because you know, on a personal note, you know I've I've lost a lot of people to, you know, various things, you know.

00:59:37 M.A.

People that were young and.

00:59:40 M.A.

I think that it helped me realize through this work that.

00:59:46 M.A.

Those limitations, even though they're difficult, and even though they're painful, it's it's a refining kind of a sharpening of a blade almost, you know, with every painful event that comes, you know, little bits, lefts off you like, you're sharpening a knife.

01:00:01 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:00:01 M.A.

Against the stone.

01:00:03 M.A.

And it's in its own right, is a form of alchemical transformation.

01:00:10 Merrily

Mm-hmm.

01:00:11 M.A.

You know that suffering can be, that is.

01:00:15 M.A.

At one point in time, I would have thought that was unthinkable, but.

01:00:19 M.A.

But it becomes the ever refining part of the self to experience those things. And that's kind of what I've learned through all of it is that it's not even though it does represent the prime masculine cosmic force.

01:00:35 M.A.

Within all of us as it.

01:00:37 M.A.

Is expressed in all of.

01:00:38 M.A.

Us it is our lived experience.

01:00:41 M.A.

Going through a world where there's chaos and uncertainty and trying to live anyway.

01:00:48 Merrily

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's beautifully explained. I don't think I've ever heard anybody explain it like that. And it's really well done.

01:00:55 Speaker 3

Well, I.

01:00:57 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:00:57 M.A.

Well, I mean, I hope it makes sense because it's, you know it's it plays a lot into the music.

01:00:59 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:01:02 M.A.

As well, you know you.

01:01:03 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:01:05 M.A.

Because the whole project really.

01:01:08 M.A.

Is to try to.

01:01:11 M.A.

See the parts of ourselves that we've lost, you know, because through time we're constantly experiencing.

01:01:19 M.A.

You know the eternal present, but memory we have all of these internal images and all of these inner.

01:01:28 M.A.

You know, memories of experiences and people and.

01:01:31 M.A.

Places and all of that, that just kind of resonate in our in our insides in a way like they're all still there. But even though in manifest reality they're not, you know, in the in the realm of the unmanifest inside, they're still there and so and we constantly forget ourselves, you know.

01:01:39 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:01:51 M.A.

Every moment that passes is another thought of, you know, sensation or desire. And we often forget that those.

01:02:02 M.A.

Core moments and those key individuals in places and significant moments are what propelled us to.

01:02:09 M.A.

Where we are.

01:02:09 M.A.

Now, so it's not so much a nostalgia as it is an attempt to try to see how broad we really are that these ghosts of the past, these ghosts of experience that.

01:02:10 Merrily

Hmm.

01:02:22 M.A.

Internalize with and embed themselves within.

01:02:25

Is.

01:02:26 M.A.

It's a way to try to remember that we are more than just a current moment that we span throughout.

01:02:34 M.A.

You know the.

01:02:36 M.A.

The.

01:02:36 M.A.

Breadth of time.

01:02:37 Merrily

Mm-hmm.

01:02:37 M.A.

And that all of these things, even though they're lost in this nebulous realm of the manifest, that through memory they are still there, and even though it's fractured and ruined and broken at the.

01:02:49 M.A.

Times.

01:02:51 M.A.

You can still feel.

01:02:53 M.A.

Love for those things and love for that part of your life and for those people and for those events. And that's actually in a way, there's a little bit of relationship shadow work because, you know, not all memories are good.

01:03:10 Merrily

Mm-hmm.

01:03:10 M.A.

Sometimes there's trauma and there's very negative experiences that people have.

01:03:16 M.A.

But through this type of contemplation that I hope that the music can.

01:03:22 M.A.

Inspire.

01:03:24 Speaker 3

Is.

01:03:25 M.A.

One where you can confront those things in a much more controlled and accepting kind of way where you can. If you feel that pain again, you can look at and say yes, this may have been incredibly destructive at the time, but it contributed so much to the development of who I am.

01:03:46 M.A.

Now and you know, and you almost end up having a love for those things, even though they were negative, you almost end up transmuting those types of negative experiences into something that.

01:04:00 M.A.

That is heartfelt that you can feel a resonance toward where you can forgive either the other person or yourself, and it can become somewhat healing in that way.

01:04:18 M.A.

But all that to say.

01:04:22 M.A.

The whole explanation for it is that.

01:04:25 M.A.

The ghosts that were given are.

01:04:28 M.A.

Experience through memory and that we get them all the time. We have a whole bunch of ghosts living up in.

01:04:33 M.A.

Us all the.

01:04:34 M.A.

Time and they're everywhere and we forget about them sometimes. But you know, there are times where certain.

01:04:35 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:04:43 M.A.

Types of music or certain mind altering things that we can do can help us see.

01:04:49 M.A.

The broader part of ourselves and our place within time and within the context of the world, and to have a little bit more of an understanding of ourselves.

01:05:00 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

01:05:01 Merrily

Yeah, yeah, I know. We're. Yeah, we're talking about the how you got the name, the given ghost. And before we started talking and then, yeah, so you were able to kind of explain that. Now with the idea of, like, the memories that we all hold and whether they be people or like.

01:05:09 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:05:19 Merrily

Things that happened in the past, whether it be positive or negative.

01:05:25 Merrily

That you and the President like you get to think about those things, and that's kind of that's kind of awesome in a way.

01:05:28 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:05:30 Speaker 3

Well.

01:05:31 M.A.

Well, not only that though.

01:05:33 M.A.

Is that you?

01:05:33 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:05:34 M.A.

It's. You can also traverse outside. You know you know, because if it's, if you're exploring the realms of the end manifest, you know, obviously the past is the easiest place to look for kind of the mythical exploration of the self. But you can also kind of look out.

01:05:48 M.A.

And you know, obviously it's through the lens of experience always. You know, it's always through first hand kind of subjective phenomenology, but you can try to understand the impressions that you were received outside and that's kind of what the album is in a way through fluid numina is.

01:05:52 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:06:03 Speaker 3

He.

01:06:08 M.A.

To try to make sense of experience of these unknown things as they're being presented to you almost like.

01:06:17 M.A.

In the cloud of unknowing, when you knock upon a cloud of unknowing to put reason aside.

01:06:23 M.A.

And to let impression and the heart kind of dictate the things that are coming.

01:06:28

Yeah.

01:06:29 M.A.

To you and so.

01:06:30 Merrily

Yeah.

01:06:31 M.A.

It was kind of the byproduct of that practice of contemplation, of trying to receive these numinous, soulful impressions to describe experience, to describe it. And the process itself and our place in it.

01:06:46 Merrily

Ah, wow, that's so beautifully said. Yeah, I have the cloud of of, of knowing like I have it on my show. I'm not ready yet, but now I'm like, I gotta read it. Yeah.

01:06:56 M.A.

It's so it's so.

01:06:57 M.A.

Good. I mean, there's obviously there's the.

01:07:01 M.A.

A lot of you know medieval monk stuff. Yeah. You know, you know.

01:07:07 Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah, I like that stuff.

01:07:13 M.A.

Like the path of Margaret and Mary and or I think Mary's sister's names. Margaret, I can't remember. But it's been a while since I've read it. But you know, there's all that stuff in relation to scripture. But get down to the brass tacks. That's, you know, that's kind of what the method is. Is allowing yourself to just.

01:07:33 M.A.

Accept and try to unify with that unknown.

01:07:36 M.A.

And.

01:07:38 M.A.

Force that's out there in order to try to receive impressions.

01:07:40 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:07:43 Merrily

Yes, the receiving is the the hardest for me. It was the hardest like. So it's getting this anyway. I won't go into the every detail, but I was getting messages from my guides, my ancestors. They were like you are mine. Your heart's not in line.

01:08:01 Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

01:08:01 Merrily

It is not.

01:08:02 Speaker 3

And.

01:08:03 Merrily

And so they were. Like, we need you need to balance it, like, together. And if anything, the other message I was getting is your heart is actually a little bit more important.

01:08:14 Speaker 3

Yeah, well, I mean.

01:08:16 M.A.

Because in waking life, you know, I mean, we're constantly trying to use rational faculties for.

01:08:18 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:08:21 Speaker 3

Oh God, yeah, yeah.

01:08:22 M.A.

In order to make pragmatic decisions, but.

01:08:25 M.A.

You know, at the end of the day, you know, they're the heart kind of.

01:08:29 M.A.

Takes a back seat. A lot of the.

01:08:30 Speaker 4

Yes. Yeah.

01:08:32 M.A.

And you know when you're sitting there in bed, staring at the ceiling, that's when the heart makes itself known.

01:08:38

Hmm.

01:08:38 M.A.

Like, hey, by the way, I'm still here and you're in a lot of pain. And here's, you know, here's some stuff that you you probably need to think about. You're like, oh, no, I don't wanna think about that.

01:08:49 Speaker 3

Yeah, you're totally. Yeah.

01:08:50 M.A.

I'd rather be stressed about work, right? Like I'd be. I'd rather rather be trying to think how I'm.

01:08:55 M.A.

Going to take my cat.

01:08:56 M.A.

To the vet or whatever. No, no, no. I'm still here. And you have a lot of a lot of feelings that you.

01:08:56 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:09:01 M.A.

Need to feel.

01:09:02 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:09:02 M.A.

So and so, you know, sometimes it's it's hard to make that balance because you know experience is so multi layered and there's so many domains of human experience.

01:09:07 Speaker 3

Oh gosh, yeah.

01:09:12 M.A.

So there's the thinking and the feeling faculties. And then there's, you know, training all this stuff we operate on so many levels that it's hard to have a certain one not take premacy especially.

01:09:24 Speaker 3

Right.

01:09:25 M.A.

Living in a physical world, you know you need to be be rational about it, but then it's like there's that part of you that is constantly, you know.

01:09:28 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:09:36 M.A.

Either longing or feels as though it's not completely full yet, or it's trying to send you a message that you need to consider certain things and that you might need to sit with certain feelings.

01:09:42 Merrily

MM.

01:09:46 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:09:51 M.A.

And you know, oftentimes we we ignore that too much. I think I think that especially in the West, you know we.

01:10:00 M.A.

We are very much.

01:10:03 M.A.

Go, go, go. Kind of people. You know, it's very Taipei type of society where it.

01:10:07 Speaker 4

Tries to be and.

01:10:07 Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah, right.

01:10:09 M.A.

You know, but it doesn't leave a lot of room at times for us to think about, you know, the emotional impacts of.

01:10:18 M.A.

You know, not being able to sit with one's emotions and not being able to try and explore it. And that's why there's such a big push for therapy and stuff, because a lot of times people just don't. They don't have the skills to, you know, try to or they haven't been taught the skills by the culture they live in to.

01:10:21

Mm-hmm.

01:10:32 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:10:33 M.A.

Stuff on their own.

01:10:35 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:10:36 Merrily

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So many things you said. I'm kind of trying to because this is looping back in for me for the Mars Aries discussion again, because we're talking about tarot and somebody asked me, I'm going to say who it was because I think he listens. Sometimes it is. Matt, my trainer, my personal trainer.

01:10:55 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:10:56 Merrily

Always ask me questions because he all listened anyway. He was like, So what is, you know, he he was like, so what's the evil tarot card? Right. He's like, what is the, what or no, he was like, what's the evil terror card? What's an evil number? Right, an evil number. And I said, you know, I took a big sigh like.

01:11:09 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

01:11:13 Merrily

Well, it's not evil, I promise not. But it's people would consider 5 right for all the reasons you said, but it's because five. You know, if you look at in the Tarot right away, Smith, the five is the thing that up turns everything. It steps in there and makes you look at things.

01:11:15 M.A.

I promise. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

01:11:20 Speaker 4

Here.

01:11:33 Merrily

That turns whatever you were saying. Your heart lying in bed.

01:11:38 Merrily

It wants to be realized, you know, maybe that's what's happening sometimes is like in the in the upturning of five, the action of five. That that's where, like making itself known. Like you are not listening to me.

01:11:41 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:11:47 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:11:51

Yeah.

01:11:53 M.A.

No, and and actually if I was because I was thinking about this.

01:11:57 M.A.

You know, in preparation for our, our conversation and an image came to my mind or.

01:12:03 M.A.

OK, so thinking about the number 5 and how that ends up.

01:12:08 M.A.

You know, developing some of these emotional pains and how we deal with them and ultimately, you know, the uprooting and and destruction of things as well as the development of new things, everything all that the image that came to my mind was you know imagine a wheel.

01:12:25 M.A.

The pentagram right, but the top is weighted more than the rest. What happens with the asymmetrical? It spins down, down and so like you know, it starts spinning in a very kind of.

01:12:29

Hmm.

01:12:32 Speaker 4

Yes.

01:12:38 M.A.

Haphazard this way. That kind of that asymmetry ends up producing.

01:12:44 M.A.

These changes, which you know if we're trying to maintain stability, you know, for human beings, stability is important. But sometimes that wheel just turns because of that asymmetrical the asymmetrical number. You know, the asymmetrical shape or.

01:13:03 M.A.

Date and distribution where changes start happening. It's like everything's being destroyed like. Oh no. Like the towers and disrepair and it's crumbling like, Oh my God, you know, yeah, you know, that's. But that's part of it, you know, that's that's part of it. Is that intrinsic knowledge that things eventually end up falling apart and.

01:13:23 Speaker 3

Hmm.

01:13:24 M.A.

You know.

01:13:25 M.A.

There's also.

01:13:25 Speaker 3

So.

01:13:27 M.A.

Now that you bring up the number 5, actually you know I have to kind of throw in, you know, the reference to the Pixies. You know, if man is.

01:13:33 Speaker 4

Oh yeah.

01:13:34 M.A.

I mean, it's five and the devil's 6, you know. You know, I I, yeah, I I heard that song when I was when I was young, I was like oh, well, you know.

01:13:36 Speaker 3

Yes, it's a good song.

01:13:43 M.A.

Maybe you know human. Humanity's number is five, and then that kind of, you know, loop back in. We're like, oh, actually, no, they were right. Like, like, in a way like, they were actually kind of right because, you know.

01:13:55 M.A.

You know 5 senses, you know, at least on on face, right, but.

01:14:03 M.A.

All of these things end up developing, you know, into this fivefold being that we are with, you know and kind of fractal in a way because you know on each appendage we have 5 digits and everything else. And so like, oh man, like, actually, no, this makes perfect sense. And Mars is the representation of humanity trying to.

01:14:24 M.A.

Pursue stability and peace through chaos and everything, so it's kind of it's that thing and now obviously you know, disclaimer, you know, of course there is a time and place for.

01:14:39 M.A.

Being protective and violent and macho and whatever, there's a place for that. It's not usually an everyday life, though, right? And so, like, there are are plenty of influencers and things like that that go out and try to.

01:14:54 M.A.

Convey themselves as a.

01:14:56 M.A.

You know, raw meat only diet person that works out eight days a week and you know.

01:15:04 M.A.

Is incredibly verile and is, you know, an alpha or whatever, right? But.

01:15:10 M.A.

That's actually, at least to my understanding, it's very much an unbalanced view of what this archetype is. It's kind of a misunderstanding of it in a way, at least, because really, what that is, they're ignoring the heart part of that.

01:15:21 Merrily

Right.

01:15:29 M.A.

They're simply trying to exude the firing, you know, will part of like, I'm going to be ex person. I'm going to be, you know, perfect and impose domination and pose. My, my physique and impose my superiority.

01:15:45 M.A.

But behind all of that is a heart that likely hasn't been tended to in a long time. And you know that's a problem with masculinity generally. In our culture, you.

01:15:52 Speaker 4

Oh God, yeah.

01:15:57 M.A.

And that's and that's part of it because you know, like, I'm not like a super, you know, masculine man, you know, like I work out. Sometimes I shotguns. When I was young and went hunting a few times. Love fishing, you know, whatever. But, you know, enjoy drinking a beer and go to a baseball game. But like, I wouldn't consider myself to be this like.

01:16:17 M.A.

Macho, you know, machismo kind of kind of guy. And so when trying to approach it from the perspective of, like, what does it mean to be?

01:16:28 M.A.

You know, so embroiled in this kind of masculine force, you know, when you start exploring Mars is that it's like, oh, well, actually, no, it's not just.

01:16:39 M.A.

What these, you know, meathead influencers are doing. It's actually a whole lot of other stuff and you know, they you have to have a reason why you fight for stuff and you don't have to fight all the time because if you fight all the time, you die. And if you, you know, all this, it's like there it's a constant balancing act. You have to know what you're going to go to bat for and you have to know what's valuable.

01:17:00 M.A.

To try to protect in the first place.

01:17:01 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

01:17:02 M.A.

You know, so that's where the work comes in, yes.

01:17:07 Merrily

It's so true. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, it was I.

01:17:11 Merrily

Think we were?

01:17:12 Merrily

Discord chatting about our signs and I was like, yeah, my ascendant is Mar or Aries. And my son is a Pisces, which is like a hilarious combination to me, which is, yeah.

01:17:23 M.A.

Ohh man.

01:17:25 M.A.

Yeah.

01:17:27 M.A.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. No, that I'm sorry. That's hard.

01:17:30 Merrily

Yeah, it's hard. It's hard because it's like, you know, I have my like, nice, sweet Pisces, ***** in nature. But man, when I get when I get in a certain way, it's like that.

01:17:42 Merrily

That anger comes out, and it's kind of like we said, it's like learning. Looking back on my past life and I'm still learning. I'm not, like, perfect in any way. But seeing the battles I did fight that were like, why the hell did I fight that? That was, like, not worth.

01:17:43 M.A.

It's like.

01:17:50 Speaker 3

MHM.

01:17:56 M.A.

Wyatt.

01:17:59 M.A.

Yeah, well, yeah. And you know it's, you know, with that I mean, you know, I have some areas, people in my life, I love them to death and, you know, and I and I get it from the perspective of like, you know.

01:18:13 M.A.

Some kinship there with the common planetary rulership and everything right. You know, with that symbolism and you know, I I think about like, yeah, I'm like oh man. Like, I know what you're doing. I understand it.

01:18:16 Speaker 3

Yes.

01:18:26 M.A.

But man, we gotta we gotta do something else.

01:18:30 Speaker 3

Like.

01:18:31 Speaker 4

But chill it out. Look.

01:18:32 M.A.

Like we gotta.

01:18:33 Speaker 3

We.

01:18:34 M.A.

We we can't.

01:18:35 M.A.

Be doing this all the time like.

01:18:36 Merrily

Right. Like this is very exhausting. Just so you know, like.

01:18:40 M.A.

Well, yeah. So you're gonna. You're gonna tie yourself. You're gonna tie yourself, tie yourself out. You know that you have a cat. Who's Aries? I'm like, oh, man like.

01:18:44 Speaker 4

Yes, for sure.

01:18:49 Merrily

Well, my husband is an airy son, so it's like, but I think that's probably why we get along because my sentence is in Aries.

01:18:54 Speaker 4

Well, yeah.

01:18:56 M.A.

But I actually have a, you know, a good friend that I made from the discord, who's a fantastic guy. Thank you. You're great, dude. And you know, it's. And again, you know, that kind of expression of.

01:19:10

Hmm.

01:19:12 M.A.

Domineering kind of stuff. I mean that that those are in moments of instability and imbalance, you know? And so again, you know, to look at 1:00.

01:19:13 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:19:21 Speaker 3

Yes.

01:19:26 M.A.

Extreme of an archetype does not give an accurate picture of what it is.

01:19:31 Merrily

Right.

01:19:32 Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:19:32 M.A.

It's.

01:19:32 Speaker 3

So.

01:19:33 M.A.

And that's why we have to kind of have a little bit more.

01:19:35 M.A.

Of a a.

01:19:36 M.A.

More of a holistic approach. You know, you know you can still hold on to your, you know, your spear and stuff. Keep and keep it. Just don't have to carry around everywhere.

01:19:46 Merrily

Yeah, you don't have to. Yeah, exactly. It's not for everyday use.

01:19:50 M.A.

Yeah, exactly. It's for very specific uses actually, right, exactly.

01:19:56 Merrily

Ohh my gosh, it's too funny. Yeah, and I think we had this conversation. I think this is a conversation you and I and other people had on any on the foolish fish discord was around like.

01:20:09 Merrily

Sort of like the art, the book, the Art of War, Right, which especially when you read it.

01:20:14 Merrily

It's about not going to work.

01:20:16 M.A.

Well, yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

01:20:19 Speaker 3

Because.

01:20:21 Merrily

So you know, if anything, I think you know, to me it's like a perfect representation of sort of the energy that people don't understand about Mars or Aries is like you actually don't want to exhaust all your energy in war. So you gotta try to prevent war as.

01:20:35 Speaker 3

Much as possible.

01:20:36 M.A.

Exactly. Exactly. And yeah. And actually those are great. My favorite quote from that book, I can't remember which section what, which numbered section it's in, but it's the quote where he says where sons who says.

01:20:52 M.A.

If you know yourself and you know heaven, then you can make your victory complete.

01:20:57 M.A.

And so the idea of that kind of union between self and the outside, like if, like, even if you have a different, you have to kind of recontextualize the definition of victory in certain situations because it's not always war. But, you know, even if in the midst of failure, as long as you.

01:21:02 Speaker 4

Ah.

01:21:11 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:21:13 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:21:17 M.A.

Have that knowledge of both things and acknowledgement of both things and an attunement to both things, then you can.

01:21:26 M.A.

You know, have a complete a completed picture or complete victory around certain parts of your life. So right, you know, it's again, you know the word, your poet archetype of knowing yourself and knowing outside and trying to reach a union in order to have a more holistic, not just better chances of success.

01:21:41 Speaker 3

Hmm.

01:21:46 M.A.

But also to have a more in depth knowledge of yourself.

01:21:49 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:21:49 M.A.

So you know that.

01:21:52 M.A.

I think is a perfect expression of what the most you know. The more balanced martial perspective and archetype would be was just, you know, know yourself, know having you know, look out, be strategic. Try not to go to war. You know, try to avoid violence if you have to. I guess you have to do.

01:22:10 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:22:11 M.A.

It you have to.

01:22:11 Merrily

Do what you got.

01:22:12 Merrily

To do, yeah.

01:22:13 M.A.

But do your best to avoid it.

01:22:16 Speaker 3

Hmm.

01:22:17 Merrily

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, we're human beings. Like I said, I'm always a work in progress. So I'm, you know, try to take that pause of, like, OK, do I really need to go and let my fire out right now or?

01:22:25 Speaker 3

Oh yeah.

01:22:31 M.A.

Do I like? Do I need to hit the button? Right now the nuclear option?

01:22:31 M.A.

Yeah.

01:22:37 M.A.

Maybe not like, hey, today maybe not today, I hope.

01:22:37 Speaker 4

No, not today.

01:22:43 Merrily

Yes, not today. Oh, goodness. It's Tiffany. Yeah, so.

01:22:50 Merrily

I guess.

01:22:51 Merrily

Gosh, there's so many things I want to talk about, but how would you suggest for people to kind of work like to for them to get to know Mars and areas for themselves and kind of explore it? What would be some suggestions?

01:22:54 M.A.

Mm-hmm.

01:23:08 M.A.

So I mean, the arbiter is a great one. Personally, if you're looking more into evocation types of things, you know, if if that's the practice that you're going for.

01:23:22 M.A.

Another suggestion would be if you're looking to have more of a.

01:23:28 M.A.

Physical you know understanding of it, joining martial arts, you know, studio trying to, you know, pick one out be kickboxing, you know Aikido, you know, Taekwondo, karate, all that stuff. What that does it teaches you discipline, you know. And that's actually another big part that I haven't touched on but essentially.

01:23:48 M.A.

Yeah, it teaches you discipline and respect.

01:23:51

Hmm.

01:23:51 M.A.

Teaches you how to best use your body.

01:23:55 M.A.

Body in order to achieve certain ends in a strategic and thoughtful way so you know, engaging in a martial art also, it's good exercise. You know, I mean I I need to get out and exercise more honestly for a while. I was working out on Tuesdays actually and it was very helpful. And it was like, yeah, you know, good. It's it's a good engine for working out.

01:24:07 Merrily

You all do, don't worry.

01:24:10 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:24:15 M.A.

Against Mars Day, you know, whatever, you know. But so engaging with martial art would probably be another good way. If you're not looking into the more of the evocation side of it. Another good resource, I think.

01:24:17 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:24:30 M.A.

Would be to look into, so if you're into kind of neopagan stuff, you could look into Roman types of methods as well, because you know, Mars was the God of the state, more or less, you know, historically. And so you know, you can kind of look into what.

01:24:50 M.A.

The Romans believed and how they kind.

01:24:53 M.A.

Of approached it.

01:24:56 M.A.

And of course, I'm sure there's stuff in the PGM I haven't actually flipped through in a while, but uh, there's that. And then.

01:25:04 M.A.

There's also, I guess you know if you're more into the goetic stuff, I mean.

01:25:12 M.A.

I mean, be careful. I guess, you know, if you can, if you're if you have no experience with that, just be careful and just use all precautions and everything. But you can kind of go through there and find because if you're more inclined to do infernal searchings under the tree, then you know that's fine. You know, just if you've never done it before.

01:25:18 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:25:20 Speaker 3

Hmm.

01:25:32 M.A.

Just be careful and and you know, similar to what Daniel said before, it's you know, like anything can really.

01:25:38 M.A.

To have a negative impact, right and you know a lot of it depends on the starting point of where you're beginning with those practices. But if that's, you know, more the wheelhouse of what you want to do then.

01:25:54 M.A.

You know, make sure you have all the proper, you know, things laid out as they do and the keep salmon and everything and find, you know, an entity that deals with that energy and like and then, you know.

01:26:06 Merrily

Right.

01:26:11 M.A.

If you didn't, don't want to go that route at all and you just want to do your own thing, which I completely get, yeah, you could always do your own types of rituals. There's actually the book planetary magic by Denning Phillips. So. So you go there. I mean, you know, and.

01:26:26 Speaker 4

That's good one.

01:26:31 M.A.

There's plenty of stuff in there that you can pull from that as well, so.

01:26:36 M.A.

And of course, if you're into Kabbalah, you could do more, you know, like sephirotic, Angel, types of evocations and stuff, and I think.

01:26:48 M.A.

There was that book by freder Ashton Hassan through.

01:26:56 M.A.

I can't remember the name of the book.

01:26:58 M.A.

Through arch and.

01:27:00 Merrily

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:27:01 M.A.

I can't remember it, but yeah, like detailing his experiences with falling certain things I don't necessarily have as much experience with the enochian stuff.

01:27:05 Merrily

Hmm.

01:27:11 Speaker 3

But.

01:27:12 M.A.

If you're interested in doing that more kind of high magic, kind of the kind of thing, there's definitely a lot of good stuff in there too.

01:27:18 Speaker 4

Ohh yeah cool.

01:27:21 Merrily

Oh yeah, so many so many good.

01:27:23 Merrily

Sources to look through for sure to kind of start experiencing your own Aries Mars energy for yourself. I do hope that people do because like you know, with a lot of stuff going on these days everybody and we don't understand what we're doing.

01:27:31

MHM.

01:27:38 Speaker 3

No.

01:27:39 M.A.

Absolutely you.

01:27:40 Merrily

Now what we're doing.

01:27:41 M.A.

Know and you.

01:27:43 M.A.

You know, and actually now is as good a time as any to try to learn how you can best.

01:27:50 M.A.

Defend yourself. Secure your secure situation because you know things are scary out there and you know anything that you can do to try to make sure that you're taking care of you and yours. You know, do do the best you can because you know, at least in the US, you know, there's a lot of.

01:27:52 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:28:10 M.A.

There's a lot of stuff happening.

01:28:11 Speaker 3

Right, yeah.

01:28:12 M.A.

With that, so yes, make sure that you're taking care of yourself, yeah.

01:28:16 M.A.

Folks on who?

01:28:16 M.A.

You love focus on protecting what you can and you know, just try to focus on what's important.

01:28:22 Merrily

Yeah. Yeah, that's yes. I think that wise words.

01:28:26 Merrily

Or the Mars energy, so kind of the last thing for the planets because we talked you brightly. So reminded me about the planetary alignment that's happening today, which is Friday, February 28th.

01:28:42 Merrily

And yeah, there's a lot a lot in the.

01:28:46 Speaker 3

Sky right now.

01:28:48 M.A.

Yeah, there really is, yeah, because earlier I've gone out and our low back porch, I was able to see, you know, there's just a big, big line, you know, from Mars up in the top of the sky, which is funny because of the conversation right now. But there's.

01:28:49 Speaker 3

Ah.

01:29:05 M.A.

And then Jupiter's next and then Venus is way on down by the horizon. And so it's just a big line, unfortunately, at least from where I was at in the world, you know, Saturn and Mercury and all that wasn't visible. But it is, you know, if if I could see over the horizon, it would be. But unfortunately I would just have the three. But it was really, really cool to see.

01:29:26 Merrily

Ohh. Awesome. Yeah, I'm gonna go outside after we're done talking and see what we can see.

01:29:33 Merrily

Today, you guys in Seattle, there was like no clouds in the skies.

01:29:37 Speaker 3

But we should be able to see something.

01:29:38 M.A.

It's pretty rare actually.

01:29:39 Merrily

God for real. We've been suffering over here.

01:29:44 Merrily

Yeah. OK. And so kind of before we get to talking about like sort of upcoming things you have with the give and go. So any other projects you're working on like what does your I like to give people an idea of like what everybody's sort of daily practice in the realm of like?

01:30:02 Merrily

Spirit or, you know, self development like what? What do you do either daily or weekly, that kind of sets you in a?

01:30:09 Merrily

Good place for that.

01:30:11 M.A.

So you know, in the last few years, you know, a lot of what I've been focusing on is, you know, contemplative practices and.

01:30:21 M.A.

You know, a lot of that.

01:30:24 M.A.

It looks different depending on the day, but there are times where I'll.

01:30:31 M.A.

A lot of time before I go to sleep, I'll try to make time to just.

01:30:36 M.A.

Try to empty out.

01:30:39 M.A.

Everything that I'm you know, everything that I've been through in a day, everything that I've been thinking about, all of my worries, everything.

01:30:45 M.A.

To try to.

01:30:47 M.A.

Allowed myself to reach a point of stasis so that way I can just kind of let my mind see what it needs to essentially.

01:30:54 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:30:55 M.A.

So, you know, trying to think about, you know.

01:31:01 M.A.

Like what is it that I might not be seeing now that I need to, or what kind of directions may I need to take that I'm not currently taking and so just again kind of like in the cloud of unknowing, you know, kind of.

01:31:15 M.A.

Emptying yourself out so that.

01:31:17 M.A.

Way you can kind of.

01:31:19 M.A.

Have an impression of where or what is, you know, pressing on you and nudging you in certain directions. You know you can call it God, or you can call it, you know, the force if you want. I'm a Star Wars fan. So I mean, that's cool. But like, you know, like, you can kind of you you can kind of allow yourself to be more receptive.

01:31:39 M.A.

To those types of sensations and experiences.

01:31:44 M.A.

Another thing you know, I try to do meditation as well very regularly, and even if it's, you know, shadow to the knee, you know you can do it for 2 minutes while you're in line at the grocery store. Like, you know, trying to take a moment where you can to be.

01:32:00 M.A.

Thoughtful about.

01:32:03 M.A.

Where you are in that moment and trying to think about.

01:32:07 M.A.

You know.

01:32:08 M.A.

Unloading your shoulders a bit to clear your mind that way you can have a more clearer picture of the things that are ailing you or things that nature attention to have a little bit more of a a lucid experience.

01:32:20 M.A.

And at times, you know, I I don't know what the name of this practice is, but I believe that there was somewhere that I read once.

01:32:29 M.A.

In either Tibetan Buddhism or something like that where?

01:32:35 M.A.

You take time to stare at one fixed point.

01:32:39

Hmm.

01:32:39 Speaker 3

For.

01:32:40 M.A.

You know, long periods of time for not just for concentration, but also for the eye to start doing what it does and, you know, letting it develop images and things like that. And so I try to do that as well. And you know, sometimes they're.

01:32:47 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:32:55 M.A.

Will be some nights where I can't clear myself out. I can't allow myself to empty out, so I'll have to, you know, just try to fix my gaze on something and let.

01:33:07 M.A.

You know, images and impressions come in.

01:33:09 M.A.

As they will.

01:33:10

Hmm.

01:33:11 M.A.

And, you know, had a really beautiful one the other day where it was just, you know, like gold lingering on the air. Like God, that's so nice, you know, like, you know. And so that's part of it too, is just, like, allowing yourself to have those moments of beauty and allowing yourself to have those visionary experiences.

01:33:18 Speaker 3

Oh.

01:33:28 M.A.

There, even if you don't know the answers to it, even if you don't have explanations for it.

01:33:34 M.A.

The experience is.

01:33:36 M.A.

You know, one of the biggest things that's important about it is just making sure that you're there and present for it, because if you can pick behind the.

01:33:43 M.A.

Veil you should.

01:33:44 M.A.

You know, sometimes you don't have all the answers, but if you do some of these little things, sometimes you can see a little bit.

01:33:45 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:33:50 M.A.

Of more bigger picture.

01:33:53 Merrily

Ooh, beautifully said. Yes. Yeah, we definitely agree. Well, my practice is mainly contemplative and devotional to the planets every day. And yeah. And it's exactly what we've been talking about this whole time. It's like letting your heart.

01:34:03 M.A.

MHM.

01:34:09 Speaker 3

We have.

01:34:11 Merrily

Or letting you know, letting that kind of guide instead of like your brain 9098%.

01:34:16

Yeah.

01:34:19 Merrily

Like what? Yeah, give it the.

01:34:19

Yeah.

01:34:21 Speaker 4

Space.

01:34:21 M.A.

Well, you know the and and there's a certain like. So I know that with mind of like there's a big push towards mindfulness meditation and stuff and like and that can be very useful. And there are certain times where it feels though it's not.

01:34:27 Merrily

Oh, right, yeah.

01:34:35 M.A.

Enough to.

01:34:38 M.A.

At least for my own purposes, I feel like it's not enough.

01:34:40 M.A.

Just be mindful of the body and now right. It's like because it's like there's there's a lot more. Like Ron Doss is great. But like, you know, there's a lot more to, you know, like there's more than just the everything is nothing. And I am, you know, I am experiencing the nothingness and whatever it's like. That's great. That's awesome.

01:34:44 Merrily

I totally agree.

01:34:59 Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah, or.

01:35:02 M.A.

It's cool to a certain degree, I agree, but also at the same time, it's like, how do I explain that I have a toothache or like, you know, like it's like there are things that are happening that are very clearly, you know, even though.

01:35:15 M.A.

Beyond illusions or whatever, there's another thing it's like. Yeah, my tooth hurts, or I stubbed my toe.

01:35:16 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:35:19 M.A.

And it sucks.

01:35:20 M.A.

You know, like, whatever, like, they're those are factors of reality that exist also. So even if it is an illusion, you know, depending on certain perspectives, you know there.

01:35:20 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:35:25

Mm-hmm.

01:35:32 M.A.

Is a reality to the things that we experience every day. And so being 1 foot in this world and one foot in the other, you know, trying to have kind of a middle path balance to you, you know, always trying to.

01:35:35 Speaker 3

Yes.

01:35:44 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:35:45 M.A.

You know, trying to see what glimpses you can and trying to understand them as best you can and.

01:35:52 M.A.

Trying to be allow your heart to speak because honestly, that's kind of the biggest.

01:35:58 M.A.

Hindrance. I feel like you were saying where the where the head kind of rules everything and it's kind of completely neglecting to end to the emotional needs that it has. It's part of the same body and the same being but yet it tries to take over and you know doesn't tend to the fact like Oh yeah, like there's actually a lot of stuff that you really haven't worked out.

01:36:19 M.A.

That you really need to, because otherwise you're just gonna keep having bad experiences.

01:36:24 Speaker 4

Yes, yes. Ohh my gosh.

01:36:28 Merrily

Uh, yes. So you know everybody.

01:36:31 Merrily

You know, figure out your own path. Consider try a contemplative. See if it works for you.

01:36:37 M.A.

And and I and I promise you know, I'm not an expert. I don't claim to be but.

01:36:44 Speaker 3

I.

01:36:45 M.A.

I will say that there's a huge benefit to.

01:36:49 M.A.

Opening that part of yourself to be a receiver to try to allow what?

01:36:57 M.A.

Subtle hands can guide you in certain directions you know.

01:36:59 Speaker 4

Yes.

01:37:03 Speaker 4

Alex.

01:37:04 Merrily

For sure. Yeah, because we're all trying to do it by ourselves.

01:37:07 M.A.

Exactly. No. Yeah. You know, we're walking this path our on our own essentially. And, you know, even though even though we're living in a world full of people and full of things and full of experiences.

01:37:19 M.A.

Ultimately, all we have is ourselves to follow on and so eventually you have to kind of grapple with the stuff that's in you and you have to grapple with the heart and the best way to do that is to open it up.

01:37:22 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:37:27 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:37:31 M.A.

At least that's.

01:37:31 Speaker 3

Mm-hmm.

01:37:33 M.A.

What I've found, you know, maybe there's a different method, but I've found that there's a lot of a lot of intimacy and meaning that can come from.

01:37:43 M.A.

Singly out outer sources that are kind of pushing you in a direction and kind of allowing themselves to be known and through those subtle impressions that you get in contemplation.

01:37:51 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:37:55 Speaker 4

Yeah.

01:37:57 Merrily

Ah, yeah, beautifully said. Yes. Uh, well, OK, so is there, you know, because you have the given ghost, you have all these, like, things that you do like, what are some upcoming events or projects that you're doing that you want to let us know about?

01:38:12 Speaker 4

It.

01:38:14 M.A.

So the the album just came out and it's.

01:38:18 M.A.

That was three years in the making. It was so.

01:38:21 M.A.

Much I poured.

01:38:24 M.A.

Everything that I could into that and at the moment I'm kind of taking a little bit of a break, but I'm still doing some tinkering and stuff and I have some ideas for upcoming releases that they probably won't be full lengths. They're probably going to be more like EP's and stuff. I'm I'm hoping that I can make.

01:38:43 M.A.

Was, you know, us engaging and hopefully meaningful producing meaningful experiences as much as hopefully the album did for some people and you know I'm going to try to work on that, continue to process those inner images and impressions to try to relate them in sound as best I can, which is hard.

01:38:52 Speaker 3

MHM.

01:39:02 M.A.

You know.

01:39:03 M.A.

Really hard. Like, you know, like taking a night, taking an impression like.

01:39:10 M.A.

I don't know what to say.

01:39:12 M.A.

You know the the name, the album, you know, fluid new and it's like OK liquid unknown or liquid essence, it's like, OK, how do I relay that?

01:39:21 M.A.

Without, you know, lyrics or without anything that would, you know, resemble that. So it's like you have to rely on very subtle forms of resemblance and you have to really be kind of in tune and thoughtful with the sounds themselves that you're using to try to convey those things. And you have to be.

01:39:41 M.A.

Genuine. You know, you can. Sure you can make a track that is, you know, relaxing, whatever. Call whatever you want. But you know there's a certain, at least for my own, you know, for my own sanity, for my own purposes, I feel like I have to.

01:39:54 M.A.

To.

01:39:55 M.A.

Attune myself and kind of sit with those sounds for a while and kind of let them percolate and become internalized so that way I could feel out like is this a sound that can resemble this? So you know, it's a very it's a contemplative way of trying to.

01:40:10 Merrily

Right.

01:40:15 M.A.

Must befriend the sounds and you know so that way they can inhabit a sound environment and you know to relay a story and relay a picture of things that are difficult to put in words and so.

01:40:28 M.A.

You know, it takes time and I hope that I can do that effectively and hopefully in the future I'll let you know whenever that happens. I'm hoping it'll be. I'm definitely hoping to have something else before the, you know, the end of the year. Talking with a couple different artists and stuff about a potential.

01:40:37 Speaker 4

Yes, please.

01:40:48 M.A.

Walmart and.

01:40:51 M.A.

Right now, considering you know vinyl pressings and stuff with the curtain thing and, you know hope, you know, fingers crossed for some various other stuff. I'll keep you in the loop.

01:40:59 M.A.

On that but.

01:41:00 Merrily

Oh please. Yes.

01:41:03 Merrily

Oh, man. Yeah. So many very cool things. And I love you talking about the process of doing it because it's again it's like looping into what we've been talking about all day. It's sort of the contemplative nature, sort of the opening and the no words thing which words.

01:41:18 Merrily

Ruled by the mind.

01:41:19 M.A.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's when you know and actually there's a little bit of an irony to that, right, that the that the art of.

01:41:25 M.A.

Music.

01:41:26 M.A.

Is sound compressions that carry with them certain frequencies that within here in the air, it's like, OK, it's air that we're internalizing, but.

01:41:36 Speaker 4

Hey.

01:41:37 M.A.

It's trying to it's air trying to get to the heart. You know, the air trying to get to the emotional, insensible aspects of ourselves that are not often explored. You know, the things that can make you a Moat and make you feel a certain way and, you know, produce powerful experiences.

01:41:41 Merrily

That's right.

01:41:47 Merrily

No.

01:41:54

MHM.

01:41:59 M.A.

From that, and so you're trying to take, you know, a different, you know element all entirely and trying to, you know force it into something else.

01:42:07 M.A.

You know, but.

01:42:09 M.A.

That. But that's the thing and I didn't really have time to touch on it today. But you know, there's more of a link between air and water than you think. You know, it's there's a reason why it.

01:42:17 M.A.

Kind of works out that way, yeah.

01:42:20 Merrily

So many, yeah, definitely. You talk about like any aspect of what?

01:42:23 Merrily

We just talked about today.

01:42:25 M.A.

Yes.

01:42:25 Merrily

For like hours it would be so fascinating. Oh, gosh. Well, where can people find out more about the getting ghost you like? Where where should people go? They'll be in the show notes, of course. But you.

01:42:37 Merrily

Can also tell us.

01:42:38 M.A.

So you know.

01:42:40 M.A.

So I have an Instagram for the give and go. So I have a Facebook page. There's a band camp page as well where I don't charge or anything for the album. If you want to download it go you know, like actually meant a great deal to me. Even if you don't pay anything, as long as you can listen to it and have an appreciation for it and you know have.

01:43:00 M.A.

My personal experience with it, by all means go for it. It's on Spotify too, as well as YouTube and everything else. So if you if you just look up the give and go still, you'll you'll find me there. You'll find all those sounds there.

01:43:12 Merrily

Awesome. Awesome. Well, yes. Everybody check out the give and go give it a listen because it's pretty great. Like I was. Yeah. It's really wonderful work. And, you know, three years of your life into it, you know, very well done.

01:43:27 M.A.

And I wanted to say thank.

01:43:28 M.A.

You so much.

01:43:29 M.A.

For, you know, let me on the show and all this stuff and honestly, you know, it's been an incredibly meaningful experience and you know, I hope that.

01:43:31 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:43:39 M.A.

You know, and to any, you know, anyone who's listening and watching. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope if you take a listen to the music, I hope that you have experience with it that is personal and that is moving to you and that you can relate to it in a way that's in rushing to the soul or the mind or however you look at it. I hope that you're able to have something to take with.

01:43:56 Speaker 3

Yeah.

01:44:00 M.A.

Confirm it.

01:44:01 Merrily

Yes, that would be wonderful. And if you could, you know, let me know that would be great.

01:44:07 M.A.

Yeah, let me know. Yeah. Follow me on Instagram. Just send me a message. I'll and I will definitely read and I'll.

01:44:11 M.A.

Respond so.

01:44:12 Speaker 4

Yes.

01:44:14 Merrily

Well, I mean, gosh, I always do this for my guests, but I and I'm going to do it to you too. What? Because we just talked about so much wisdom that you've shared. But what words of wisdom would you like to leave us with today?

01:44:27 Speaker 3

Well.

01:44:31 M.A.

I think that what I.

01:44:32 M.A.

Would try to relay is to.

01:44:39 M.A.

Not let yourself be completely ruled by the head. Allow the heart to speak.

01:44:45 M.A.

Because oftentimes it needs to and.

01:44:49 M.A.

If you're going through a hard time, if you're experiencing pain.

01:44:53 M.A.

Just know that it's all part of the process.

01:44:56 M.A.

And that we're here. And although it's just a part of life.

01:45:01 M.A.

It's a common experience everyone around you that relates in some way or another and.

01:45:08 M.A.

Even though that pain may feel as though it's coming from the depths of the soul, and that it's, you know, hard to get over and that you feel as though maybe you're falling too good to behold, just note that.

01:45:21 M.A.

One, it's not forever 2.

01:45:24 M.A.

It's making you stronger even though you don't realize it.

01:45:27 M.A.

And if you get in touch with the heart.

01:45:29 M.A.

And allow it to speak. Then you will hopefully come to a place of growth and come to a way of being able to get out.

01:45:39 Merrily

Ohh. Beautifully said. Oh my goodness. Well, again, thank you, Amy. I'm so happy that we got to chat. Finally, after knowing each other.

01:45:46 M.A.

Damn, merrily it was so good. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

01:45:52 Merrily

It was really a joy to chat with MMA and get to know them better. MA has some really fascinating takes on creativity.

01:45:57 Speaker 4

And life itself.

01:45:58 Merrily

The musical project made by Ghost is not to be missed and you have to experience it for yourself. Be sure to check out the notes for the links to Ma and the given ghost. Do you remember to like, follow and subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast?

01:46:10 Merrily

Platform. It really helps us grow. Thank you for listening and being an important part of Casual Temple.

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EPISODE 51 - M.A. Weidman aka The Given Ghost

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SYNOPSIS

GUEST LINKS

HOST LINKS

BOOK NOTES

TRANSCRIPT